Wallington/Nonsuch Admission Policy Changes

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huntlie
Posts: 211
Joined: Mon Nov 24, 2008 11:08 am

Post by huntlie »

absolutely, kk dad - both schools have excellent results, but what sticks in their craw is that they are 'only' about 24 in the blessed League Tables, whilst Tiffin Girls (no catchment, ever) is number one.

That is all it is about - the Heads are simply being disingenuous when they say things like 'We are for bright girls whereever they are'

Something these schools also do, is have a purge after GCSE - if you do not get all A / * grades, you are out. And then they bang on about how fabulous their A level grades are - well of course they are!
Giulio
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Joined: Thu Oct 02, 2008 4:31 pm
Location: London

Post by Giulio »

kk dad wrote:Have we come full circle then Giulio.

You agree that long journeys are not ideal and therefore catchment areas do serve a purpose.
I do not think that makes a full circle. 40 min journeys and 60 min journeys are not that different.
Catchment areas do serve a purpose, to exclude people. If schools, good schools were available everywere, anybody would prefer to go to the closest school. Catchment area is a device to select were supply is limited. Selection by ability is somehow different, is to give the best to the brighest. What is questionable is to use both together.
You are right about the inadequate provision in Lambeth and surely you must agree that the place you live should NOT determine how good or bad schools, hospitals, transports you get from the public purse we contribute.
To select all children by ability is fairer then to select them by ability and catchment area.
Giulio
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Post by Giulio »

kk dad and huntlie

out of curiosity, in principle are you in favour of GS and why?
kk dad
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Joined: Fri Oct 10, 2008 11:26 am

Post by kk dad »

Giulio,

I think we will have to agree to disagree.

I do believe in the Grammar school system to select on ability, but i also believe that catchment area is part of the equation for the reasons I have already stated in this thread. I think the key is that ultimately, the children who have been selected on the current rules have performed well. Is taking somenone from further afield whith a better score than than someone in the cathcment area really going to make that much of an improvement to the schools performance? - there really isn't much for it to get better by. The rules in place are serving their purpose and that is to put together a group of children of a similar academic ability.
Because Sutton is one of the few boroughs to operate the Grammar system, other Borough's shortcomings are being transposed here, which you can appreciate causes a great deal of resentment. Schools by design should serve their local community first and foremost (in my opinion), but this is being eroded in Sutton. Contrary to some statements and opinions out there, there is not a wealth of alternatives.
Tell me though, if you lived 5 minutes walk away from the school as I do, would you support the use of catchment area or would you still press for pure admission by ability.
Oddly enough (and this just occurred to me), we don't hear too many people make the same argument for faith schools who also use catchment area. They select by faith within a catchment area - using the same principle selection should be based on strength of faith.
Giulio
Posts: 188
Joined: Thu Oct 02, 2008 4:31 pm
Location: London

Post by Giulio »

I agree to disagree.
If I was living 5 min from the chosen GS I would be mighty p*** *** that my DD might not get a place as a result of the changes. This does not make the changes less fair, though.
And to tell it all, as a father I am happy if my children get into GS, but I think that GS are divisive and unfair in principle, they naturally give more to who has more, it reinforces class divisions (not as bad as the private system). State education belongs to everybody, why should clever children get more opportunities then less clever ones? You wouldn't give less opportunities to your less gifted child in favour of the 'better' one. I wouldn't. Maybe the opposite.
Banding within a school can serve the same purpose of GS but allows for more mobility.

Nice talking to you.
kk dad
Posts: 41
Joined: Fri Oct 10, 2008 11:26 am

Post by kk dad »

Likewise Giulio - it has been interesting debating this issue with you from our different vantage points.

I think that from a parent's perspective the system can seem unfair, but from a child's perspective who is in a grammar institution it can benefit them greatly and allow them to flourish in ways that are not possible in a comprehensive environment.

I am a product of a comprehensive school with banding and I have done ok but it was the right environment for me at the time. Looking back, my brain only kicked into gear after got beyond 20!! I would have struggled in a Grammar school, but alot of children don't - they thrive in the right surroundings when challenged and pushed by kids with a similar drive.

At least that's how I see it.

Anyway, get my daughters results next week so my fingers are tightly crossed. My biggest fear is that I don't get any school on my list which is a possibility (and they all sit within my borough). I have another two girls to go through this process in the years to come and if things do change as proposed, its only going to get tougher for people like me who only want to send their children to a local school.
WP
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Location: Watford, Herts

Post by WP »

An adjudicator has just ruled not to uphold objections to the new arrangements for Nonsuch and Wallington Girls.
huntlie
Posts: 211
Joined: Mon Nov 24, 2008 11:08 am

Post by huntlie »

Yes, and what an insulting ruling it is as far as local parents are concerned. The ruling states that local girls will comprise half the intake - when at one time they comprised 80%.

The part about community cohesion is a joke - bringing in yet more pupils from far away just means yet more parents' cars parked in the middle of local roads, waiting for pupils in utter selfishness.

As for the bit about the 'ethnic diversity' of the school... one hardly knows where to begin.

Meanwhile, the school touts the test as infallible, and they'd really like it to be totally non- catchment. Well, some might say that if a large group of pupils taking the test at one school have already taken that exact same test a few days previously at another school in another area, then it cannot be a reliable indicator.
Giulio
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Joined: Thu Oct 02, 2008 4:31 pm
Location: London

Post by Giulio »

I think we should all send in another objection to reserve a number of places to grandaughters leaving in Cheam
huntlie
Posts: 211
Joined: Mon Nov 24, 2008 11:08 am

Post by huntlie »

'leaving in Cheam?' My Gd lives in Cheam, paces from Nonsuch, and has done all her life.

Whatever you meant by this, the facts are the same - Nonsuch is trying to compensate for the fact that it often gets poor-ish pupils who have been over-coached & travel from miles away, mostly from preps, by widening the net. The result will be even more over-coached kids who are great at Maths but need a private tutor before they can construct a coherent paragraph.
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