11 Plus Exams Forum

What a load of uneducated arguments, and that women sitting next to the Lib Dem was talking with such vehemence - what's her problem?

The state sector needs to raise standards not force everyone else to join to bring them down to the lowest common denominator. Having 20% of bright rich kids in a comp only lowers their standards which in effect does make society more equal whilst doing a disservice to our economy. Unfortunately Independent Schools and GS are the backbone of our maths, sciences and languages and without them we would be world-class in nothing. As it is we're already struggling!

Tipsy - as someone who has taught in a Comprehensive that regularly got its pupils into Oxbridge and Russell group Universities I find your comments offensive!

The problem with many 'comprehensives' is that they are not 'all ability' as the top has been creamed off by local GS or Private schools.

I agree with Ed's mum that the question BBC should be addressing is why state schools are not allowing children to reach their true potential?

I still don't understand how abolishing a good private school will improve a run down state school. It puts logic on its head.

My personal opinion is envy. Having said that though, I believe private school should do more as a charity to ensure only those who are genuinely in need financially qualify for their bursaries and scholarships should be abolished.

Any scholarship assistance not based on financial need is contrary to the spirit of what charity is all about.

Uncle Jo, I agree with you. Christ's Hospital does just that, gives financial support to those who genuinely need it.

Most schools are ending the financial incentive with scholarships and they are becoming honorary in order to free up money for means-tested bursaries.

EDIT: Uncle Jo, I agree with envy. If we are ever in the situation not to be able to afford independent education I will be gutted but won't be demanding they should be closed because my DC aren't getting the same advantages of others.

Uncle Jo wrote: My personal opinion is envy.

Oh, we all know that Uncle Jo – Envy and Jealousy!

It’s just that “opponentsâ€

T.i.p.s.y wrote:What a load of uneducated arguments, and that women sitting next to the Lib Dem was talking with such vehemence - what's her problem?

The state sector needs to raise standards not force everyone else to join to bring them down to the lowest common denominator. Having 20% of bright rich kids in a comp only lowers their standards which in effect does make society more equal whilst doing a disservice to our economy. Unfortunately Independent Schools and GS are the backbone of our maths, sciences and languages and without them we would be world-class in nothing. As it is we're already struggling!

No wonder Gordon Brown is in a bit of a bother just now, Tipsy.

All that cabinet re-shuffling and he didn't put you in charge as Secretary of State for Children, Schools and Families?

As a parent of children at grammar school, I have to acknowledge that I am contributing to the lowering of standards in the general state sector.If my children were in the local school, that would be some more potential A grade students with supportive parents who are (mostly!) well behaved.

This is an uncomfortable fact I have to live with because i was not willing to sacrifice their education to the "greater good".Many would call this selfish.

The same arguments can be put forward about Indep education, ie creaming of students of potential high ability, supportive parents etc.

I do not think that everyone who is not in favour of Indep education or grammars is green with jealousy.I know some geuinely sincere parents who opt not to send their children to grammar or indep because of their beliefs.

I personally find the notion that if we abolished all grammars and independent schools, that we would have a totally level educational playing field unrealistic , naive even.

Were this to happen ,in no time at all , the wealthy and the informed would be moving into areas where schools were doing better and the system would still be two tier.

However I am blessed to have children who could pass exams and access the best schools that the state system has to offer.I might feel more strongly if they were struggling academically and I lived in an area where there were lots of grammars and the more able had been seriously creamed off.That would affect the atmosphere and learning environment of the only option I would have.

I suppose all I am saying is that its not always that people are jealous and envious, just feeling disempowered through lack of choice.So when people are "sniffy" about where my children go to school, I try to be a little gracious and not assume they are jealous.
I wouldn't want to be in their position.

Right I am going to take cover now because I don't expect much agreement

I'd be happy to take on the role under Cameron! I'll implement compulsory sport 5 days a week and CCF from 7-9am every morning before lessons. No more unemployment with class sizes of 10 and the morning is for academics and the afternoon is for vocational work.

EDIT: Now that I think about it that sounds surprisingly like Independent schools (minus the CCF every morning of course).