How Do Independent Schools Do It?

[Chelmsford mum]

Interesting thread. I question more some super-selective GS who can pick their whole cohort at 11 and (again local experience here) get only marginally 'better' A*/A results.

Well my daughter's so called super selective(hate that term sounds kind of smug!), does a lot more than marginally better .

However that is in class sizes of 30! Grammars may select but they have larger classes than some comps and no additional funding because they don't tick any of the "need" criteria for Govt funding.So that said selective they may be, but they have a lot more to contend with.

Surely to return to the original question you don't pay for indep school just for their percentage of A*.My children are all in state schools so I am no expert!
I would have thought that class sizes half that of grammars where children can be individually known, an extensive range of extra curricular activities and not having to bow to every change from Govt would be a large part of where your fees go?

[Chelmsford mum]

I wouldn't worry about spending cuts if the tories get in .

I would if the last Tory Govt were a measure of what's to come.That could be a whole other thread though

[T.i.p.s.y]

Most selective senior inde's have class sizes of up to 24 with no discipline problems, although that can drop to 4 for A'level dependent on the subject. Smaller class sizes are more important when children are young. Get it right then and class sizes shouldn't matter as much when they are older.

I think ealingmum said that good comps do the same amount of extra curric that inde's do. GS might but I would question this about comps. I'm not saying these things are important but most schools don't have swimming pools, rowing lakes, squash courts, 20+ musical groups, debating societies. I'm certain they do not play team sport for a minimum of 2 hours each afternoon aswell as PE. Every week , at the schools we are looking at, pupils go into the community and help in schools, care homes, gardens. So if an inde school isn't getting 100% A's then frankly I'm not surprised as they spend far less time in the classroom than state schools. Of course a term is also between 10-11 weeks long, not 13 weeks and then there are 4 day weekends twice each term aswell (London schools may differ).

Re cuts: I purely mean cutting the unnecessary garbage that has been implementedn then changed, then implemented, then changed.....As you say, another story!

[Chelmsford mum]

Most selective senior inde's have class sizes of up to 24 with no discipline problems, although that can drop to 4 for A'level dependent on the subject. Smaller class sizes are more important when children are young. Get it right then and class sizes shouldn't matter as much when they are older.

I think ealingmum said that good comps do the same amount of extra curric that inde's do. GS might but I would question this about comps. I'm not saying these things are important but most schools don't have swimming pools, rowing lakes, squash courts, 20+ musical groups, debating societies. I'm certain they do not play team sport for a minimum of 2 hours each afternoon aswell as PE. Every week , at the schools we are looking at, pupils go into the community and help in schools, care homes, gardens. So if an inde school isn't getting 100% A's then frankly I'm not surprised as they spend far less time in the classroom than state schools. Of course a term is also between 10-11 weeks long, not 13 weeks and then there are 4 day weekends twice each term aswell (London schools may differ).

Re cuts: I purely mean cutting the unnecessary garbage that has been implementedn then changed, then implemented, then changed.....As you say, another story!

Better go to work soon but........
I disagree about class sizes.There are genuinely no discipline probs in DD's classes of 30 because of motivation levels.However returning to why schools get more or less of the top grades, a fifth more in EVERY class HAS to reduce the time the teacher has to pick up on individual issues.

The one indep I know well has about 24 in its top set but goes down to 12 in groups that are not heading for A s so I think many indep do have much smaller class sizes.

Most of what you describe in extra curriculur is available in the top grammars but I agree that sadly not in most comps.(some exceptions)

DD's school frees up time in the timetable from year 9 onwards to do community outreach linked to a preferred subject e.g take music to Primary feeders.Although their exam results are excellent, they are not an exam factory.Each half term they come off timetable completely for enrichment activitiers e.g Parliament day, etc.

If I was paying these are the things I would expect to be there and proabably more of them than a grammar.If DD's school were entirely exam focused, they could squeeze in another subject instead of outreach activites.They could do a half GCSE if they removed the enrichment activities.That would be a terrible shame in my view.
I expect indep schools(the good ones) could also "up" their results if they were willing to drop a lot of other stuff but that would be a mistake, in my view.

[T.i.p.s.y]

'Parents with enough money, but wondering whether it is a good investment to choose private schooling, might be reassured by these findings,' said Kent's Professor Francis Green, who also worked on the study.

Found this article today on the ISC website (granted it's by the Daily Hate Mail) and I thought of you Ealingmum!

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... shows.html

[T.i.p.s.y]

Re spending cuts:

but higher-quality furnishings, including, according to BBC's File on Four in 2006, "at least seven handmade designer tables, some of which cost almost £3,000 each". The school has a budget of £8.5m and "spent £31,000 in a single year at one bespoke furniture maker".

This is totally unacceptable spendature of tax-payers money. Let's hope this ends!

quote from: http://www.guardian.co.uk/education/200 ... -education (aka let's terrorise our kids and teachers into submission!)


EDIT: MORE WASTE!

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/5495591 ... plans.html


Makes you wonder how independent schools do it. They have finite resources and still come up with the goods.

[Looking for help]

I find it shocking that it might be ok to pay someone who has been privately educated more than someone who has not been - imagine the outcry when it is discovered that a man is paid more for the same job than a woman
It is absolutely ridiculous and warrants further investigation to discover if in fact there is any truth that the academic background on its own delivers a higher wage.
Just my opinion.
LFH

[T.i.p.s.y]

It said they earn more but that may be down to them having a better job, not being paid more for the same job. The implication is that you climb the ranks quicker because of what a private education may give you.

[Looking for help]

It actually said

'They found the highest earners were paid slightly more if they had attended private schools - even if they had the same academic record and family background as their state school colleagues.

'Whether these benefits come through "old boy networks" or through unmeasured broad competences that are obtained through private schooling, we cannot say,' said the LSE's Richard Murphy, one of the researchers.'

If it is through 'the old boy network' rather than the fact they are better at their job, in my view this is a cause for concern. If there is discrimination, in whatever form it takes, it is not right.

LFH

[T.i.p.s.y]

Well maybe their confidence and honed PR skills make them more valuable. Two people can have the same position but one may still be better at their job and get paid more. This is very common.