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PostPosted: Fri Feb 12, 2010 4:21 pm 
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According to the paper is by professors Naylor and Smith in the University of Warwick at

http://wrap.warwick.ac.uk/88/1/WRAP_Smi ... erp657.pdf

an independent school will allow a child to gain statistically significant higher A level scores that students in LEA schools (and the higher these school fees are, the higher these scores will be) but it will not make a child more academically suitable for University entry than he or she already is inherently. The exposition of page 12 plus section 6 (pages 13-15) makes very interesting reading indeed. Better still read the whole paper. Of course this should not matter if the reasons for sending you kid at school are other than ultimately obtaining a good university degree. I only quote the abstract:
Quote:
"From a unique data-set identifying the school attended prior to university for a full cohort of UK university students, we examine the determinants of final degree classiffication.
We exploit the detailed school-level information and focus on the infuence of school characteristics, such as school type, on subsequent performance of students at university. We estimate that, on average, a male (female) graduate who attended an Independent school is 6.5 (5.4) percentage points less likely to obtain a `good' degree than is a student who attended an LEA (that is, state-sector) school, ceteris paribus. We also find considerable variation around this average figure across different Independent schools. We find that, for males, the variation in the probability of attaining a `good' degree across schools can largely be explained by the level of school fees."

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 12, 2010 4:27 pm 
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It's quite believable but see X-factor thread.


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 12, 2010 4:34 pm 
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guest43 wrote:
It's quite believable but see X-factor thread.


As I mentioned above :

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Of course this should not matter if the reasons for sending you kid at school are other than ultimately obtaining a good university degree.

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PostPosted: Sat Feb 13, 2010 9:12 pm 
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sj355
I thought the paper read dreadfully. It gave no detail as to the statistical processes or data sets used and it dropped in Latin as if to prove the academic merit of its findings. The other point I find quite ridiculous is that it takes as read that the class of degree is all that matters.
I feel the severe cuts being made in University funding and the Social Engineering objectives being forced on University Admissions Departments will have an immensely damaging affect on this country.
I am more convinced than ever that when it comes to dd confirming her University choices I will support her looking to the Ivy League. Labour has transformed our country educationally into a third world country!


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 13, 2010 9:33 pm 
This is hardly ground breaking research. Obviously, pupils who manage to obtain 3 As from a comprehensive background , will have to be very self motivated (because they will not be pushed as much in the classroom)as well as naturally very bright.It therefore makes sense to assume they will go onto achieve very good degrees. I would argue that such pupils are not really 'comparable' at all but are the extremely bright who never made it to an indie.The lea school will offer such pupils comparitively little 'value added', these kids have to do it all off their own backs.Whereas , on the other hand, the indie clearly does substantial value added as seen by the number of pupils who are, arguably, 'averagely' bright manage to achieve 3 A'S nonetheless.

I think the report only serves to reinforce the educational merits of indie schools, I'm afraid.


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 13, 2010 9:44 pm 
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there is more than one type of state school and one type of independent. Look at the A levels - in many areas the state GS far outshine the indies and in others it is the reverse.

In some the indies are a back up if the kids can't get into the GS - in others the state schools are so bad that people go to any length to avoid using them.

adobe acrobat reader playing up on the pooter tonight so can't read the whole document but I doubt that they have done this by area...


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 13, 2010 9:49 pm 
hermanmunster wrote:
there is more than one type of state school and one type of independent. Look at the A levels - in many areas the state GS far outshine the indies and in others it is the reverse.

In some the indies are a back up if the kids can't get into the GS - in others the state schools are so bad that people go to any length to avoid using them.

adobe acrobat reader playing up on the pooter tonight so can't read the whole document but I doubt that they have done this by area...


Exactly. One would expect the highly selective grammar to have more naturally able pupils than an average indie, so on that basis, the exam results shouldbe substantially better.


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 13, 2010 11:37 pm 
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shana Lewis wrote:
This is hardly ground breaking research. Obviously, pupils who manage to obtain 3 As from a comprehensive background , will have to be very self motivated (because they will not be pushed as much in the classroom)as well as naturally very bright.It therefore makes sense to assume they will go onto achieve very good degrees. I would argue that such pupils are not really 'comparable' at all but are the extremely bright who never made it to an indie.The lea school will offer such pupils comparitively little 'value added', these kids have to do it all off their own backs.Whereas , on the other hand, the indie clearly does substantial value added as seen by the number of pupils who are, arguably, 'averagely' bright manage to achieve 3 A'S nonetheless.

I think the report only serves to reinforce the educational merits of indie schools, I'm afraid.


Sorry but this is nonsense. The fact is that you buy your A Levels but the truth will out at university, this is exactly the way it should be :lol:

You guys have, with respect, very little idea what is occurring in the state sector. According to the research, the indies get better A Levels but this gives no more advantage for degrees at university, and that is only right, to be honest. There has to be a levelling, and my own husband and myself are testament to that ( he comp -great degree, me indie, same degree). He was absolutely no more motivated that myself :lol:


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 14, 2010 12:53 am 
Looking for help,

With respect I think I do know a little about the state sector, as I work in it!!

'Buying A levels' is a little strong, but yes, buying a good education is pretty accurate and othing to be ashamed of, people spend their money on a lot worse things!It is a travesty that more children are not able to recieve a good education, I agree.

Well done to you and hubby, by the way!I suspect you are both well driven, intelligent people, who totally deserve your successes. :)


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 14, 2010 1:00 am 
Just to edit though, there are of course some very good comps;my judgement is probably clouded somewhat from what I am seeing in my area. at the moment! :shock:


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