HBS v NLCS

[BMum]

[quote]By the way, around 10 girls from my daughter's school were offered places at NLCS, the majority with scholarships. Only two or three are taking up the places. About half are going to St. Paul's while a couple of others are going to HBS. quote]

I find this so interesting, is the water better in your area! I feel the prep school that I invested in have failed my daughter, I wish that there was a forum like this where parents could ask about Junior / prep schools, I am so worried about my second daughter, she is bright, interested and I don't want to fail her too, by keeping her in a bad school.

How are you too know? I want the school to be doing the majority of the work! or am I just being naive?

[Mark Thyme]

BMum, it's a very selective and very in demand prep school. They close the list at around 200 and parents need to apply before the girls are two to get on it, from which the school chooses around 36 girls. The girls seem to like the school and at a guess learn something. They get drilled for the various entrance exams at school so don't need any additional coaching at home. The school has a very strong reputation among senior schools and very close ties with them. Heads of the senior independent schools will interview girls solely on the head teacher's recommendation, even if they've done badly on the tests. Beyond that, though, it's very hard to tell what the added value is. Would the girls have done as well somewhere else anyway?

Trying to gauge added value is as hard for secondary schools. Which is why I looked at Oxbridge entrances to approximate differences between SPGS, NLCS and HBS. Sutton Trust puts their 5 year averages at 50%, 30% and 15% respectively (though not strictly comparable because many of the girls from NLCS and especially HBS go into medicine, where Oxbridge is less relevant, not to mention the bias among HBS parents to keep their girls at home, therefore limiting them to London Universities). This year, SPGS got around 60% in, I think. OK, Oxbridge entrance isn't a great measure. But when everyone at these top schools gets all A*s on all exams, it helps to have another objectivish measure, however feeble and open to dispute.

[surfcrazy]

Again, I agree with Mark to an extent. St Pauls has 74 boys going to Oxbridge this year(including mine), but to make sense of these figures, total applications should be known. I believe just over 130 applied excluding US Unis, so if you compare this to other schools, you have to know % of successful applicants to compare, as many choose to go to UCL,Imperial or Edinburgh for example (Top 5 per QS Uni rankings). Proportionately, I am led to believe a similar success at HBS 17 out 0f 30 (not sure if this is true as it came from a pupil). The question is then why do so few apply and I think Mark hit on some of the reasons in his last posting - the demographics of the cohort being a major player and the vast numbers of girls studying medicine. There are many good universities beyond Oxbridge.

[sherry_d]

I dont have knowledge of the school mentioned but found it quite interesting as you touched on some aspects a little closer to my heart and that are a bit of a taboo to talk about.

We are people of colour and my DD is currently in a primary school where she is in the very minority and so far she doesnt seem to mind that and is very popular girl with lots of friends but I wonder if this will change the older she grows. Ofstead dont help it either, I have read a few reports and its a point they raise when a school has less minority kids and that make it even sound like its such a big deal and make me wonder even more about my choice of schools argrrrrrr.

I know for certain, I would not want a school full of people of colour but I keep wondering if one day my DD will point a finger at me and say look what you put me through mum.

Hence my current desire is for a school like Sevenoaks which seems to be somewhere in between but those schools are very hard to find, cost money and very hard to get in.

[BarnetDad]

I was only quoting 80% from someone else (maybe via a pm?). I asked Blond about this and he said it's not 80%, but didn't say what it actually was! Maybe they told most of the Asian girls not to come to the Friday session last week, but it was no worse than 50%. I do get the impression that the % is reducing in more recent years. Well, we're committed now and maybe I'll make it a mission to get the figures later this year...

In terms of Oxbridge entry, I think HBS "could do better" and that it's possible that there's an extra dimension that NLCS/SPGS add to their girls that impress the interview panels. Not sure if it's relevant, but both myself and DW were at Cambridge (I from middling comprehensive, she from nice indie in Yorkshire). Will we want the same for DD?

So, MarkThyme, what is the name of this miracle prep school?!

[BMum]

So the water is better! It seems there are a few preps that seem to be able to guarantee a high proportion of their children will get places at leading secondary schools. At least ten at yours Mark? I am sure there are others who do a similar thing; to get into CLGS prep you have to have your name down from birth…
HBS takes only 93, what is the intake for NLCS, SPGS, HABS? They can not be much greater? Does any one have the actually figures?
According a Sutton Trust 2007 document (could not find anything newer).The top ten of these schools include SPGS, NLCS, HABS, MT’s , HBS is in the top 30 but I am sure it must have moved up by now. I am sure if I do the math it is saying that there is a very small window of access and yes we don't have to chose Russell group universities there are other places to go, but research says"over and above access to higher education more generally, entry to selective universities matters because the graduates of these institutions go on to dominate the most sought-after and influential careers and in general, earn significantly more over their lifetimes.
However evidence suggests that, despite considerable efforts by schools, universities and the government, the social background of those entering elite universities has not changed significantly over the last decade or so, and access is dominated by a small number of schools and colleges. (From Sutton Group Research material)

It is a depressing picture, there are few places it seems, and my DD has spent too much of her time pondering of the movement of slugs, the possibility of fairies and the burning out of stars! That plus I was definitely delinquent in positioning my self before her birth!

[surfcrazy]

St Christophers girls were offered 26 places at SHHS, 17 CLGS, 10 NLC, 6 SPGS, 5 HBS, 16 at Francis Holland etc. Amazing for such a small cohort!

[luckydip]

I have been reading this topic with great interest as my DD will be starting the 11+ journey.

Mark: Your DD current school sounds wonderful, a lot diffrent to ours. My daughter is in Y5 at a prep school and she is not being prepared for any tests. It is upto the parents to ensure that their children are at a level to succeed in the examinations.

Mark would you care to name the school........... It seems that my DD is missing out !!!!!!

[Mark Thyme]

My daughter goes to St. Christophers. Well spotted surfcrazy. I think there are 36 girls in the year, so those offer numbers really are quite something. On the other hand it is a very popular school and has its pick of girls from across North London - from the eastern fringes of Islington to Maida Vale, from Marylebone up to Hampstead Garden Suburb. The girls are happy and seem to do well. But, like I said before, it's hard to know the counterfactual, ie how well they'd have done somewhere else.

[surfcrazy]

Mark Thought it might be, a bit like The Hall at 13+ in producing stellar results.