sneakly gcse science results at top indie

zee · Post by **zee** » Thu Apr 08, 2010 7:29 am

Flamenco wrote:
Tree wrote: IGCSE's are not recognised in the League Tables.
Yes, I realise that, hence I said I thought the IGCSE angle was a red herring, after all, at this school, all the science exams were IGCSEs, so none would count.

However, the only reason for pupils to take individual sciences plus science or double science is so they get more (I)GCSEs for very little additional effort, and that is a similar issue to many of the means which are also use to do better in the tables.

sherry_d wrote:double science looks a bit dodgy to me, do universities really look at that as 2 science subject? I am thinking probably not and just dont get it why anyone would do it?

Huh? Double sci is twice as good as single sci, but not as good as triple, but they are all proper qualifications. Many state schools ONLY offer single or double science, which can be a bit of a jump for those who want to study science at top unis. Even in schools where all permutations are available, it's often a matter of how many subjects a child is taking, along with timetabling that determines which they do.

Tree · Post by **Tree** » Thu Apr 08, 2010 8:09 am

IGCSE's are not recognised in the League Tables.

but it does make a difference to these tables especially as they are based on average point scores:

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/educa ... 81816.html

if i've done the maths correctly and if all the 12 pupils taking double science got 1 less grade in triple science i think this would reduce their score to 590 and drop them down the table although i'm not totally sure how the points are calculated

KCS is obviously a great school and their resuts are amazing i just wonder if they are pushing kids into double science with half an eye on the tables

T.i.p.s.y · Post by **T.i.p.s.y** » Thu Apr 08, 2010 9:01 am

Frankly I would be far more concerned that the school sits it's pupils for an exceptionally high number of Edexcel awards which are notoriously easy and in some cases A* have been awarded with a 62% pass mark. It is one of the first questions I ask a senior school.

solimum · Post by **solimum** » Thu Apr 08, 2010 9:54 am

sherry_d wrote:OK i get it now but the double science looks a bit dodgy to me, do universities really look at that as 2 science subject? I am thinking probably not and just dont get it why anyone would do it? General science seem OK for those who just want a general knowlege of science and nothing more. Triple sciences for those intending to study science and double sciences??? I am not getting quite what its purpose is. If universities do take it as 2 sciences then that will be great but I doubt very much that top universities do unless I am missing the point of it all.

Hi Sherry

Many students now at top universities (including my DSs) have done "double science" GCSE as for many years it has been the standard science offering at a large number of schools (my experience is in state schools but no doubt indies too). As science is a compulsory part of the curriculum it meant that the majority of pupils would have covered at least the basics in all three sciences (rather than, as my OH remembers bitterly from his GS days, having to drop biology in favour of Latin). More recently more schools have started to make the option of studying "triple science" ie the three separate GCSES available to pupils who want it and are capable, although depending on the way their option system works it may be crammed into the same teaching time blocks as the double science. It has always been possible to go on to higher level (A level) science study from the "double science" option (sixth form teachers should know where any possible gaps in knowledge will be and ensure they are covered). There have been threads elsewhere on this forum discussing the relative merits of double/triple science, depending on what else needs to be fitted in

I would imagine that the school originally highlighted by Tipsy generally offers triple science but has the double option available for pupils who might struggle, possibly because they are trying to fit in lots of extra subjects in another area (languages, humanities) or extra-curricular activities (playing for the England youth rugby team etc) or maybe need extra help with other subjects. That seems to me entirely reasonable - after all it is only 12 pupils out of the year group of 150.

T.i.p.s.y · Post by **T.i.p.s.y** » Thu Apr 08, 2010 10:22 am

I didn't highlight the school Solimum, it was Tree!

solimum · Post by **solimum** » Thu Apr 08, 2010 10:52 am

Sorry Tipsy, reading/writing too fast as usual!

Tree · Post by **Tree** » Thu Apr 08, 2010 11:19 am

I would imagine that the school originally highlighted by Tipsy generally offers triple science but has the double option available for pupils who might struggle, possibly because they are trying to fit in lots of extra subjects in another area (languages, humanities) or extra-curricular activities (playing for the England youth rugby team etc) or maybe need extra help with other subjects. That seems to me entirely reasonable - after all it is only 12 pupils out of the year group of 150.

v good point solimum i suppose the main issue is that you must look beyond the basic league table positions and scores when comparing results and issues like does the school offer triple/double science etc need to be taken into account so if one school quotes its science figures as 80% get an a or a* but they only do double science this shouldn't be compared with another school who quote 70% getting a,a* if they only do triple science

Frankly I would be far more concerned that the school sits it's pupils for an exceptionally high number of Edexcel awards which are notoriously easy and in some cases A* have been awarded with a 62% pass mark. It is one of the first questions I ask a senior school.

Thats very interesting tipsy i always assumed there was some external moderation of different exam boards that ensured that an a* was of a similar standard irrespective of the orgnaisation setting the exam it may be for example that 62% for edexcel is equivalent to 80% for another board it would be pretty shocking if there wasn't some independent standardisation??

mike1880 · Post by **mike1880** » Thu Apr 08, 2010 11:23 am

If you have a quick scan through some of the recent university threads you'll see that it does a child no favours to enter them for GCSEs in which they have no chance of obtaining good grades.

Mike

zee · Post by **zee** » Thu Apr 08, 2010 11:26 am

solimum wrote:
I would imagine that the school originally highlighted by Tipsy generally offers triple science but has the double option available for pupils who might struggle

Or, it might be the high fliers who take individual sciences AND then science or double science as well so they get extra GCSEs for very little effort. This is allowed and there are schools that do it (including in the state sector), but it is a strange loophole that has no equivalent for those whose strength lies in arts and humanities..

T.i.p.s.y · Post by **T.i.p.s.y** » Thu Apr 08, 2010 11:33 am

Edexcel are poor qualifications and often picked by less selective state schools to boost grades. There was an article about it recently. In fact my son sat an Edexcel GCSE maths paper not that long ago and gained 100% but in the IGCSE paper his mark was substantially lower and the paper was much tougher. The Unfortunately, children are being fooled into thinking they are A grade students when in fact they are not.