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PostPosted: Fri Apr 16, 2010 9:56 am 
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Joined: Tue Jan 22, 2008 2:36 pm
Posts: 459
Location: Rugby
Just read this very interesting article.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/life_a ... 011407.ece

I think it contrasts quite noticeably with the style of the Harrovian Benefactor villified in another thread!


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 16, 2010 10:24 am 
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Joined: Fri Sep 15, 2006 8:51 am
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I gather that the boys school (KES) has many wealthy old boys,

However the girls next door can't so easily call on their old girls to help the funding - the girls being brought up as good citizens earning rather less than the old boys - many docs/ teachers / academics / mothers....etc etc . haven't git the spare dosh.

Not sure about the pressure on a kid having not only to keep parents and school happy but also a benefactor...


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 16, 2010 9:05 pm 
Sorry to put a damper on things, but some of us KES parents feel that the school is not strict enough about investigating the financial circumstances of some families asking for bursaries. Friends in other parts of the country have reported having regular home visits from school bursars and one head teacher told a non-working friend of mine that he would expect her to get a job before he considered her son for a bursary (her husband was working, but she hadn't worked for years so was a bit shocked, but she did find a job). I haven't heard of anyone in Birmingham being visited at home to check if there were any Mercs in the drive or rolling acres out the back. I have heard of someone who turned down a KE grammar school place, though, on the grounds that the KES uniform grant on top of the full bursary meant they were financially better off sending their child to the independent school, and that doesn't seem right to me.


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 16, 2010 11:02 pm 
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Location: Maidstone
Home visits would regularly seem taking it a bit too much and very intrusive. I would be very hesitant taking my child to a school where my home environment will be continually scrutinised. Imagine what it would make to those who genuinly couldnt afford feel opening their homes all the time to the school. You will feel much poorer indeed and that can even affect the confidence of the child in school. Those abusing the fund will surely know and be able to hide their mercedes and all things wonderful when a home visit is due.

I know the other argument could be take it or leave it but a fairer system will benefit both but somehow regular home visit dont sound good. Its really the dishonest parents who spoil it for everyone.

hermanmunster wrote:
However the girls next door can't so easily call on their old girls to help the funding - the girls being brought up as good citizens earning rather less than the old boys - many docs/ teachers / academics / mothers....etc etc . haven't git the spare dosh.

So true, the girls schools dont have any endowments to match the boys schools.

I found this rather fascinating in the article

[quote]Osborn himself has three grown-up children, and interestingly none of them went to private school (for which their mother, says Osborn, describes him as “a jolly fine oneâ€

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PostPosted: Sat Apr 17, 2010 10:52 am 
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Joined: Sat Aug 15, 2009 8:07 am
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Location: London
Sorry, I am with KES parent on this one.

Many bursary kids are great and their parents fully appreciate the huge value of the financial support their children are getting. However it is difficult as someone who needs to work full time and more to pay fees, to see non working mums in nice cars who happily stand back and let others give up their time to support the bursary fund.

Worse still is the child who happily rubs in the fact that she is so clever that her parents do not need to pay fees, whilst pointing out how "thick" your child is. The real pity is that because bursary's are based on income there is no incentive for her parents to increase their income, and so no hard working role model for the child. Given that it is difficult for school to withdraw a bursary you may then get a bright child coasting half way down the year group and making life difficult for the kids who work very hard to achieve the same results.

The solution in our case was to tell the kids they were on "parental scholarships" which were just as valid. The kids might not be as clever but we were in it together and all working hard to ensure that our children had a good education and a strong start in life.

If someone is sponsoring a child's education they may well want to know how their money was spent. And as for a school checking up, parents lie all the time over education. State schools our way, particularly church ones, make home checks. If you are seeking support of tens of thousands of pounds I cant see why you would not cooperate.


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 17, 2010 11:17 am 
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I agree with londonmum and kes mum, I often dropped off kids and headed off to work for long shifts, completely cheesed off at the mothers heading for the gym and trying to decide where to meet for lunch.

Ultimately I discovered as several of these marriages faltered, the paying of the fees became a problem and WORK was mentioned... :roll: .. I think actually very tricky if you haven't worked for years.


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 17, 2010 11:41 am 
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Well, just to add a little balance, as a full time working mum and grateful recipient of a bursary for my ds, I find it equally difficult to watch glamorous, non working mums(but full fee payers)making their arrangements for lunch, the gym etc as I prepare myself for a 60 hour week that wouldn't come near to paying a third of the school fees of my ds independent school, let alone two or sometimes three siblings at the school, three holidays abroad, a fleet of cars etc.
Then I have to remind myself that 'that's life'. :)


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 17, 2010 12:41 pm 
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Location: London
I am not sure there is any disagreement here, as I think you might find it harder to stomach the same non-working and seemingly affluent mothers if you knew that they were in receipt of more financial support than you....

A minority, I know. In general my children's school life has been enriched by some lovely kids who, without help, would not have been able to afford to go to their schools. As a family who can only afford the fees with two full time incomes and additional part time work, as well as being very careful about expenditure, we have a lot more in common with families who receive financial support. But precisely why a minority who take this support for granted, even assuming a position of superiority and entitlement, can grate most.


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 17, 2010 12:45 pm 
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Location: Essex
Wow, some strong views here! I think it's worth remembering that it's possible to be hard-working and still not have a high income. People in that situation are just as good role models as those who earn more.

I admit to being a non-working mum who goes to the gym every day after the school run. Oh yeah, I drive a nice new car too (old one died) but I don't smoke, drink very little, don't have satellite TV and holiday on the cheap. The cost of childcare is so prohibitive that it's not worth my returning to work for less than I earned previously. DH works incredibly long hours to support us. It's easy to make snap judgments about people when you don't know the whole story. I am not in receipt of any bursary, but if I was, I'd be one of the mothers you find so annoying.

As far as being a role model goes, I think I'm a far better one now that I'm not working. I only wish I'd realised this sooner.


Last edited by First-timer on Tue Nov 23, 2010 2:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sat Apr 17, 2010 1:23 pm 
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Location: Maidstone
I think I can smell stereotpying of parents here. The fact you are both working doesnt = higher income please. Non working parents exist in both camps and not being too political if you have other young children, its virtually impossible to really make it any worth when you factor in nursery fees. If you are just above the threashold for getting the childcare element then you're screwed. Also you may have the main breadwinner commuting miles to get to work etc you really cant just write that someone doesnt deserve it if the second person doesnt work.

Also when you see a parent in the playground what makes you think they work or dont work. Do they need to come in a smart suit? You could be easily mistaken and think someone doesnt work when they do infact. I have a baby and would have spend over £800 in nursery fees a month so I left my job to become self employed. Even though what I earn is less than what I did in my job if you factor in all the other cost, we are financially better but still wont be able to afford full fees with DH working full time and studying too hoping to make ourselves better. I can imagine there are many families there who both work but would never afford the fees and then there are single parents too. I find it really odd that those who seek bursaries will have no motivation, we are one family seeking it and certainly have ambitions and dreams. Infact I am hoping heavens open and my business picks up so I dont have to beg anyone to pay my DC's fees by the time she starts next year.

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