Do you think the current fee system will collapse?

[Yamin151]

The best teachers I have worked with are those that understand how to 'unpick' childrens misconceptions and problems with maths. You do need good subject knowledge but also an understanding of pedagogy to enable knowledge to be shared effecively.
The worst have often been those who have sailed through education without ever finding the subject difficult and therefore don't understand why children don't understand. They usually have one way of explaining a topic and when that fails they don't have any strategies to help.

I am sure that is totally the case. Hopefully this is not just a skill picked up at Oxbridge, but at any "good" degree course, which if course is most likely to be offered by the best red brick, the Russell Group and Oxbridge, but not only Oxbridge.

[Guest55]

I'd prefer a teacher with a solid degree from anywhere and PGCE and recent CPD; the actual university is irrelevant in my experience.

[Yamin151]

I'd prefer a teacher with a solid degree from anywhere and PGCE and recent CPD; the actual university is irrelevant in my experience.

Absolutely. Completely agree.
And I'd add to that, someone who passionately wants to be a teacher, and has not just 'landed' there after getting a degree and then PGCE, because wasn't sure what else to do, however 'good'. Our children need to be taught by people who love teaching!

[Amber]

I was more meaning where he has the evidence that all these Oxbridge candidates are suddenly pouring into teaching? I haven't seen that published anywhere. Unless it is TeachFirst - not necessarily a universal Good Thing, and in which case it is usually TeachFirst, GetOutSecond and do something else. I don't know if it attracts more Oxbridge graduates but maybe that is what he means.

Nothing against, nothing at all - just not sure being a great teacher necessarily follows from getting a top academic degree, especially with no training, or 'on the job' training, as now seems to be the trend.

[Guest55]

TeachFirst, GetOutSecond

Or take the money and run ... I really don't get this way of 'training' at all. PGCE courses aren't perfect but at least you have time to learn the craft and get feedback before you are responsible for your own class. For 'mature' entrants I prefer the flexible PGCE model where you can train alongside a job.

The other issue is ensuring you keep up-to-date and keep learning ... not sure private schools are that good at giving staff that option. I know they actively try to recruit from GS as they know their teachers will be up to speed with e.g. using ICT.

[Amber]

When I was working in one of the 'worst' schools in the county, an independent school head offered me a senior teaching job which I hadn't applied for. I've never taught in an independent or a GS, so that wasn't why I was approached. It was bit cheeky though (the job hadn't been advertised) and I was shocked at the time.

Anecdote of course, proves nothing at all other than maybe one can acquire sought-after skills and be well thought-of as a teacher without having been to Oxbridge and almost exclusively having worked in what might be seen as 'difficult' situations. And worth saying that the 'best' teachers don't all work or want to work in private or grammar schools. I wouldn't want to work in either as I feel happier with children who seem to need extra support, and I know many excellent teachers who on principle wouldn't work in either of these school types. There can't be any generalisations on either side really.

[mystery]

I guess there isn't one answer to this question. Each of these independent schools has a different market in which it operates. Maybe if things get tough again for the independent sector we will see a greater variety of approaches from individual schools struggling to make ends meet to prevent them going to the wall.

But wouldn't you say that the independent sector, in general, survived the last financial crisis rather well? Or are there quite a few secretly teetering on the edge and this is what he is alluding to?

I think a very good British education at A level - pre-u - I-b will always appeal to a certain overseas sector won't it?

[mystery]

When I was working in one of the 'worst' schools in the county, an independent school head offered me a senior teaching job which I hadn't applied for. I've never taught in an independent or a GS, so that wasn't why I was approached. It was bit cheeky though (the job hadn't been advertised) and I was shocked at the time.

Anecdote of course, proves nothing at all other than maybe one can acquire sought-after skills and be well thought-of as a teacher without having been to Oxbridge and almost exclusively having worked in what might be seen as 'difficult' situations. And worth saying that the 'best' teachers don't all work or want to work in private or grammar schools. I wouldn't want to work in either as I feel happier with children who seem to need extra support, and I know many excellent teachers who on principle wouldn't work in either of these school types. There can't be any generalisations on either side really.

But it isn't cheeky is it? Businesses headhunt good people in this fashion - or were you concerned because you felt you would not have been a good appointment?

[mystery]

I have an extensive network of professional colleagues I have established in over 30 years of teaching; some of whom are now private school HTs. They tell me what they are looking for in a new appointment and I've been personally approached by a number of local private schools, as have many colleagues I know in other schools.

Reports e.g. by ATL have noted that Private schools cannot access funding for CPD e.g. the national strategies training. Every state school allows and actively encourages staff to continue their learning as a teacher; this is just not the case in the majority of private schools.

I note you are yet to reply to my post on the other thread ...

If I was purchasing a place at a private school for my child I would not be expecting the teaching staff to go on national strategy courses or suchlike, nor for the school to be able to access state funding for such things.

Another benefit of a good private school ( and they are not all good ) would be that, as in a good academy, the head and teachers would not feel beholden to carry out some of the sillier things that some local authorities and / or senior advisers peddle. They could pick and choose using their own good sense as they are their own masters.

[Rob Clark]

Just picking up on something Guest55 and Yamin agreed on earlier in the thread – I started a PGCE (admittedly a long time ago) and it quickly became apparent that I wasn't cut out for teaching so I dropped out of the course. I still feel that was the right decision both for me and for the generations of children I might otherwise have taught.

However, it left me with an abiding respect for those who are passionate about teaching, and who do it well – it's blooming difficult! They should be paid more and valued more imo, though I do agree with Guest55 that CPD and ongoing staff development are crucial elements. Being exceptionally good at a subject does not mean, per se, that you will be able teach it to others – sometimes if something comes easily to you, it is hard to break it down and explain it to those who are struggling to understand.