The Eebac

Independent Schools as an alternative to Grammar

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Ladymuck
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Joined: Wed Jul 01, 2009 2:04 pm

Re: The Eebac

Post by Ladymuck »

Does Whitgift still get less academic sports pupils to sit exams outside of school so the results don't appear in their statistics? I can think of one person that gained entry in the last year or so that will have done so through their sporting abilities and not their academic ability.
No, but they have introduced "pathways" to GCSe options, so that the most able pupils will take 10+ GCSEs, and the less able will sit just 8. So yes, I would say that there is still some indication that they wish the boys to concentrate on getting the highest possible grades on the exams that are reported. I know that some of those on the lowest pathway will still sit an extra GCSE or two as a private candidate elsewhere.
Ladymuck
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Joined: Wed Jul 01, 2009 2:04 pm

Re: The Eebac

Post by Ladymuck »

It seems to me that Ebac is a good measure of the effectiveness and breadth of the teaching within the school.


Good for you. And of course there is nothing stopping your dcs in taking Ebacc subjects in any of these schools. But whereas HBS restricts pupils into being forced to take Geography or History, Whitgift and many other schools allow them more choice, and consider subjects such as Philosophy or economics to also be selected as a humanities option.
HBS is a stellar school - so why would they believe that there is a value to providing that information to the public, but others don't?
Like HBS, Whitgift provides a great deal of detail on its GCSE results on its website. Unlike HBS Whitgift is not a state school. It does not have to meet the same Government measures. Parents and pupils get a choice. That is what some of us pay for!
ToadMum
Posts: 11944
Joined: Wed Jan 18, 2012 12:41 pm
Location: Essex

Re: The Eebac

Post by ToadMum »

Guest55 wrote:
It seems to me that Ebac is a good measure of the effectiveness and breadth of the teaching within the school.
It isn't though ... it is a very narrow measure.
School A GCSE options: in Humanities, school only offers History, Geography and RS and in MFL French and Spanish. It is compulsory to take two Humanities and one MFL. Five A* - C including English and Maths: 75%. Ebacc 70%.

School B GCSE options: 'Humanities' interpreted broadly, compulsory to take two, free choice from History, Geography, RS, Economics, Classical Civilisation. RS and Classics teachers particularly charismatic and dynamic. One MFL compulsory, options being .French, German, Spanish, Italian, Mandarin, Japanese.
Five A* - C including English and Maths: 95%, EBACC 50%.

Which school has the greater breadth and effectiveness?
Outside of a dog, a book is a man's best friend. Inside of a dog it's too dark to read.Groucho Marx
Guest55
Posts: 16254
Joined: Mon Feb 12, 2007 2:21 pm

Re: The Eebac

Post by Guest55 »

https://www.gov.uk/government/consultat ... calaureate" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Some of you may wish to respond to this - I certainly have!
firefox
Posts: 25
Joined: Tue Nov 25, 2014 9:15 pm

Re: The Eebac

Post by firefox »

Woodbine wrote:Thanks for the comprehensive response. I was aware that Inside Croydon is a bit of a left-wing soap box, but the Whitgift Ebac percentage was nevertheless surprisingly low. It seems to me that Ebac is a good measure of the effectiveness and breadth of the teaching within the school.

HBS is quite clear in its published statistics that it has a 100% Ebac compliance for last year. HBS is a stellar school - so why would they believe that there is a value to providing that information to the public, but others don't?
As someone who does Performance Management for a living, I can very confidently say that Ebacc is NOT remotely a good measure of the effectiveness or value add of a school. When I look at schools, Im interested in three things: Participation, Performance and Progression.

When one measures these for ANY of the "Top 100" schools (and I personally would say Whitgift is around 35) there is little statistically significant difference between them, thus rendering them all as "stellar". It then of course comes down to fit for specific children, which of course will differ.

One last thing…Whitgift can be accused of many things ("blasted peacocks, pomposity etc etc") but its language provision is probably one of the best in the country, with its bi-lingual "La Section Francaise" now being added to with a Spanish equivalent, Ruta Hispana.
Catseye
Posts: 1824
Joined: Wed Oct 29, 2014 6:03 pm
Location: Cheshire

Re: The Eebac

Post by Catseye »

firefox wrote: Participation, Performance and Progression.
That's very interesting I like learning new things from people with some specialist knowledge.

I Understand what performance and progress mean(at least i think i do), does participation in the context of your analysis of secondary schools mean the prior ability/attainment contextualised wrt a cohorts socioeconomic-cultural background ?

Is there a simple lay-persons algorithm that connects these variables to make objective judgements of the "worth/effectiveness" of a school or indeed large cooperative organisations or large cumbersome NHS departments?

The last one is for my own professional reasons :wink:

Also if I can be a bit cheeky , can I pick your brain a bit more please? If a organisation is deemed not fit for purpose, can this type of thinking apportion blame or indeed no blame-individually or collectively?
Loopyloulou
Posts: 878
Joined: Fri Aug 29, 2008 5:20 pm

Re: The Eebac

Post by Loopyloulou »

Harrow School had a 0% pass rate in the Ebac. The Director of Studies doesn't care. His comments are here: http://www.publications.parliament.uk/p ... 51vw54.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Loopy
firefox
Posts: 25
Joined: Tue Nov 25, 2014 9:15 pm

Re: The Eebac

Post by firefox »

Catseye wrote:
firefox wrote: Participation, Performance and Progression.
That's very interesting I like learning new things from people with some specialist knowledge.

I Understand what performance and progress mean(at least i think i do), does participation in the context of your analysis of secondary schools mean the prior ability/attainment contextualised wrt a cohorts socioeconomic-cultural background ?

Is there a simple lay-persons algorithm that connects these variables to make objective judgements of the "worth/effectiveness" of a school or indeed large cooperative organisations or large cumbersome NHS departments?

The last one is for my own professional reasons :wink:

Also if I can be a bit cheeky , can I pick your brain a bit more please? If a organisation is deemed not fit for purpose, can this type of thinking apportion blame or indeed no blame-individually or collectively?
Yes...that would be a pretty good description of what I mean by participation. There are a number of quant models that are built to measure this (I have built a few myself) and it can be applied to a vast arrays of industries and scenarios in my experience, as long as it is tweaked to take account f the nuances of each situation. What I would say of course is that there will always be a level of subjectivity, but there are some measures that can be taken to add some rigour and robustness to the methodology.

Regarding your last point, it should be very straight forward to review an overall (or lack of ) achievement and then apportion how much (or how little) of that achievement is down to specific contributions at the department, team and ultimately, individual level...PM me if you have any further questions on this.

Back on topic...good to see the Head of Harrow showing why the Ebacc is a nonsense
Catseye
Posts: 1824
Joined: Wed Oct 29, 2014 6:03 pm
Location: Cheshire

Re: The Eebac

Post by Catseye »

Ta :D

Still trying to get my head around over 500 documents- I still cannot make head nor tail of the mess I am dealing with.

But I may need to tap you in the near future and thank you for your kind offer of help( you will obviously be paid for any expert assistance)

Expertise would have to be verified
kenyancowgirl
Posts: 6738
Joined: Mon Oct 21, 2013 8:59 pm

Re: The Eebac

Post by kenyancowgirl »

PPP is the motto of our school sports Department...it fits very well...!!
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