Which School?
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another mother
- Posts: 269
- Joined: Mon Mar 31, 2008 2:46 pm
my elder is at a highly selective London day school - we were rather shocked to discover that for the first 3 years of senior school she was taught half the curriculum in classes of 28! (The same size as our primary school by the final year!). High ability levels all round, big homework loads and the focus of the pupils who are mostly - though not all (particularly a couple with VAST incomes!) hugely motivated mean they shoot through the curriculum which leaves more time for broader teaching - at least that is what I hope we're paying for! But I don't really think class size has been a problem.
Friends at grammar schools seem to have pretty similar and positive experiences in the same size classroom.
The teaching is on the whole - though NOT universally - very good - there are some inspiring staff but again not all; I have met equally impressive teachers who teach in the maintained sector and simply have a different vocational drive. Some would never dream of teaching in the independent sector - just as well. Both are valuable and incredibly necessary if all our children are to inhabit a happy world when they leave their undoubtedly protected enviroment. I don't think private guarantees brilliant teachers all round, even at a top school like ours.
I can't see that the academic peer group (surely as good in a GS like Cheltenham) is going to be so very different in attitude or ability wherever you go though the children may have less expensive life experiences at GS. ( in North London it's the very brightest who tend to get HBS and Latymer) There are opportunities in the private sector - the speakers they get, the trips they can do (though we can't afford most!), the clubs. The slightly sad thing is how few take up the chance to hear the speakers etc - but then they do also want to be teenagers and that is very important too. Maybe that's different in a boarding environment?
Finally and probably completely irrelevant now!! I grew up with public school boys (obviously from an aged generation now!!) - I have to say emotionally I wasn't that impressed with most, but married one - who I regard as among the exceptions in terms of emotional maturity! (But he's an artist - thus proving that you can spend your life savings on education but you can't guarantee they'll go into the City!) My sibling - very good private day school - is not at all confident - she feels her education did her little good and in her world can be a positive disadvantage. Sometimes I wonder why we are making such huge sacrifices but our alternatives - having not got the one GS - weren't very encouraging and I see how much my dd gets from it and think by and large it's money well spent. Sixth form...that's another matter!!
None of these things are cast iron - lots depends on the child, the family and luck in terms of the kids your child makes friends with.
Friends at grammar schools seem to have pretty similar and positive experiences in the same size classroom.
The teaching is on the whole - though NOT universally - very good - there are some inspiring staff but again not all; I have met equally impressive teachers who teach in the maintained sector and simply have a different vocational drive. Some would never dream of teaching in the independent sector - just as well. Both are valuable and incredibly necessary if all our children are to inhabit a happy world when they leave their undoubtedly protected enviroment. I don't think private guarantees brilliant teachers all round, even at a top school like ours.
I can't see that the academic peer group (surely as good in a GS like Cheltenham) is going to be so very different in attitude or ability wherever you go though the children may have less expensive life experiences at GS. ( in North London it's the very brightest who tend to get HBS and Latymer) There are opportunities in the private sector - the speakers they get, the trips they can do (though we can't afford most!), the clubs. The slightly sad thing is how few take up the chance to hear the speakers etc - but then they do also want to be teenagers and that is very important too. Maybe that's different in a boarding environment?
Finally and probably completely irrelevant now!! I grew up with public school boys (obviously from an aged generation now!!) - I have to say emotionally I wasn't that impressed with most, but married one - who I regard as among the exceptions in terms of emotional maturity! (But he's an artist - thus proving that you can spend your life savings on education but you can't guarantee they'll go into the City!) My sibling - very good private day school - is not at all confident - she feels her education did her little good and in her world can be a positive disadvantage. Sometimes I wonder why we are making such huge sacrifices but our alternatives - having not got the one GS - weren't very encouraging and I see how much my dd gets from it and think by and large it's money well spent. Sixth form...that's another matter!!
None of these things are cast iron - lots depends on the child, the family and luck in terms of the kids your child makes friends with.
Hi monstermunch, have you tried talking to his teachers as they will have valuable input. We were in a similar dilemma, and the overriding problem with high achieving grammar schools is that they do not produce well rounded individuals. I was told by a university lecturer that children from high performing grammar, didn't perform as well as the ones from the private sector at university.
Guest55, you probably haven't met boys and teachers from QE. I haven't met a more arrogant bunch!! None of the private schools I have seen, had anything similar.
Also bear in mind that when there are 30, there is competition for everything! including the trips. Having a son who will happily stay in the back of the queue for every thing, that too was a deciding factor for me.
I also know from past experiance that even the less academic children from the private sector were still able to land more successful jobs. As a another forum memeber put it " quietly confident" in many ways.
Guest55, you probably haven't met boys and teachers from QE. I haven't met a more arrogant bunch!! None of the private schools I have seen, had anything similar.
Also bear in mind that when there are 30, there is competition for everything! including the trips. Having a son who will happily stay in the back of the queue for every thing, that too was a deciding factor for me.
I also know from past experiance that even the less academic children from the private sector were still able to land more successful jobs. As a another forum memeber put it " quietly confident" in many ways.
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KES Parent
No idea about KEHS, but my son has always been in a class of 25 at KES, and much smaller in the sixth form.KenR wrote:Hi Marmite & Zorro
It's actually a bit of myth that Independent Schools always have smaller class sizes. In Birmingham for example KE 5-Ways grammar (state sector) has class sizes of 25, whereas both KE Independents (KES and KEHS) have class sizes of 30 and 28 respectively.
From a teachers perspective (my wife has taught in both sectors) there is far greater workload for teacher in the Independent sector, irrespective of class sizes, simply because of the mandated extra curricula activies and extra open days/parents evenings etc.
Regards
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monstermunch
- Posts: 81
- Joined: Mon Mar 31, 2008 9:49 am
- Location: London
Thanks another mother and vas
As the kids are at prep school there's no way the Head will favour the grammar school - a notch of top schools on their results is what they ideally want if the child's suited. As with Tipsy the school thinks he should go to Winchester because they don't like London schools as they are pro boarding and Winchester seems to be seen as the most academic but with the nicest boys. They think Eton could be a risk but if it paid off then fantastic. I do listen to the Head but at theend of the day he has a different agenda to me. My problem is I have mutiple agenda's going on!
As the kids are at prep school there's no way the Head will favour the grammar school - a notch of top schools on their results is what they ideally want if the child's suited. As with Tipsy the school thinks he should go to Winchester because they don't like London schools as they are pro boarding and Winchester seems to be seen as the most academic but with the nicest boys. They think Eton could be a risk but if it paid off then fantastic. I do listen to the Head but at theend of the day he has a different agenda to me. My problem is I have mutiple agenda's going on!
Dear KenR & 1401 and other people
I really didn't realise some Independent has such a large class. I'm sending my DD to less than 15-12 up to IGCSE then 10-8 or less towards A level (and Pre-U hopefully).
As for the teachers, they are so enthusiastic & exsiting at our chosen school - I could immediately remember some good teachers I had met in my school days (with whom I'm still very grateful) - that's what my husband & I liked most. I just couldn't find that when we went to see our local GS but perhaps I shouldn't have jumped to the conclusion.
Apologies if I offended anybody and for being slightly off topic.
Kind Regards
I really didn't realise some Independent has such a large class. I'm sending my DD to less than 15-12 up to IGCSE then 10-8 or less towards A level (and Pre-U hopefully).
As for the teachers, they are so enthusiastic & exsiting at our chosen school - I could immediately remember some good teachers I had met in my school days (with whom I'm still very grateful) - that's what my husband & I liked most. I just couldn't find that when we went to see our local GS but perhaps I shouldn't have jumped to the conclusion.
Apologies if I offended anybody and for being slightly off topic.
Kind Regards
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monstermunch
- Posts: 81
- Joined: Mon Mar 31, 2008 9:49 am
- Location: London
I think there are larger class sizes in the London private Schools and also the highly selective schools as the kids, in general, are well-behaved and motivated and a larger class size does not impact them in the same way. In general, prep schools usually have a maximum of 20 pupils, with my sons class having 10 at present, up to a maximum of 15.Marmite wrote:Dear KenR & 1401 and other people
I really didn't realise some Independent has such a large class. I'm sending my DD to less than 15-12 up to IGCSE then 10-8 or less towards A level (and Pre-U hopefully).
As for the teachers, they are so enthusiastic & exsiting at our chosen school - I could immediately remember some good teachers I had met in my school days (with whom I'm still very grateful) - that's what my husband & I liked most. I just couldn't find that when we went to see our local GS but perhaps I shouldn't have jumped to the conclusion.
Apologies if I offended anybody and for being slightly off topic.
Kind Regards
Sorry no answers but just a few more questions.
1. Do people think you could get the top public school "added value" by going to Colchester Grammar up to GCSE, and then Eton etc for the sixth form?
2. What do the top public schools actually do to instil the greater "perceived confidence and all round confidence" and could you in some way recreate this in your hometown (with the money saved!!)
Just a bit of background ..... I attended a highly selective and extremely good girls independent day school in the north of england three decades ago .... perhaps similar to the girls grammar school in Colchester but no fees. I then attended an Oxford college where I was in a small minority of girls, and many of the boys and other girls were top public schools boarders. I felt very different, and wished I did have the undefinable whatever it was.
Good luck with a lovely decision. I am agonising over primary schools at the moment!!
1. Do people think you could get the top public school "added value" by going to Colchester Grammar up to GCSE, and then Eton etc for the sixth form?
2. What do the top public schools actually do to instil the greater "perceived confidence and all round confidence" and could you in some way recreate this in your hometown (with the money saved!!)
Just a bit of background ..... I attended a highly selective and extremely good girls independent day school in the north of england three decades ago .... perhaps similar to the girls grammar school in Colchester but no fees. I then attended an Oxford college where I was in a small minority of girls, and many of the boys and other girls were top public schools boarders. I felt very different, and wished I did have the undefinable whatever it was.
Good luck with a lovely decision. I am agonising over primary schools at the moment!!
