School choice - a possible compromise?
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T.i.p.s.y
Comments removed by Moderator.
Regarding exam results, there is no way I'd look at the government site as it is full of spin when it comes to the league tables. A'level league tables are far more relevant than GCSE results and its more difficult for the government to skew the results on favour of state schools.
Regarding exam results, there is no way I'd look at the government site as it is full of spin when it comes to the league tables. A'level league tables are far more relevant than GCSE results and its more difficult for the government to skew the results on favour of state schools.
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Sally-Anne
- Posts: 9235
- Joined: Wed Jan 11, 2006 8:10 pm
- Location: Buckinghamshire
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Sally-Anne
- Posts: 9235
- Joined: Wed Jan 11, 2006 8:10 pm
- Location: Buckinghamshire
Hi Tipsy
As one of perplexed's replies contains information that could be useful to silverflora I have let the first post stand, but edited the second one to remove the controversial comments.
You and perplexed have now had a "say each", and I would be grateful if we could leave it at that.
Thank you for the apology and offering to have the posts deleted.
Sally-Anne
As one of perplexed's replies contains information that could be useful to silverflora I have let the first post stand, but edited the second one to remove the controversial comments.
You and perplexed have now had a "say each", and I would be grateful if we could leave it at that.
Thank you for the apology and offering to have the posts deleted.
Sally-Anne
The main difference between Pate's and CLC is that Pate's is a STATE grammar school ( free for children from all backgrounds and income) and CLC is a top internationally renowned private fee-paying school.
There should really be no comparison between the two. A top private school offers all kinds of things that a state school cannot possibly offer, (and which it may not want to offer).
Because Pate's has such a good academic record it attracts parents who would normally not have even considered it. It is not a private school and therefore has a big social/ethnic mix, which is what a grammar school should have.
There should really be no comparison between the two. A top private school offers all kinds of things that a state school cannot possibly offer, (and which it may not want to offer).
Because Pate's has such a good academic record it attracts parents who would normally not have even considered it. It is not a private school and therefore has a big social/ethnic mix, which is what a grammar school should have.
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fm
.I'm not sure what the "say" is that I have had, and I'm not sure what has been deleted by the moderators as I was not online (yet again!) during the moderation and deletion of part of the discussions.
Silverflora was asking about CLC and Pate's. I know neither school firsthand so I looked up their 2007 results at GCSE on the DCSF website. I saw that, using the set of performance indicators that the Government currently uses for all schools at GCSE, that CLC had a significant lower performance at GCSE than Pate's grammar school.
I was asking if there is a reason for this. I don't think that "spin" answers this question satisfactorily. The results on there are definitely the school's GCSE results. I had also looked on the CLC website for exam results to see how they measured themselves, but could not find anything. Perhaps they do international GCSEs which are not recognised in the Government statistics? Is this the case? Or is it something to do with the age at which the girls take their GCSEs?
However, you will see that if you take a look at the stats yourself that there are a significant minority of pupils at CLC who are not achieving 5 A*-C with or without English and Maths at GCSE. This surprised me as I had thought of it as a highly reknowned British public school, and I had counterparts from this school studying with me at Oxbridge many years ago.
I was therefore asking what it was about the school that had made Silverflora set her heart on it for her daughters such a long time ago. Presumably it does have other benefits. But if I was purely looking at its GCSE results I can think of many schools in all sectors (including non-selective independents, comprehensives, and grammar schools) that have better GCSE results.
I was also interested in why Silverflora described her daughter as having "upset the applecart" by passing for Pates. It suggested to me that her daughter had maybe had reasons of her own for sitting the exam for Pates, and these would need to be considered by Silverflora in reaching her final decision. I did not quite follow why being allowed to go to Pates for just two years was a reward.
Maybe I am being thick, but I have taken the original question at face value and have tried to point out the sort of things I would consider in reaching a final decision. But without further information it is difficult. Everyone uses their own decision factors at the end of the day in deciding on a particular school.
Silverflora was asking about CLC and Pate's. I know neither school firsthand so I looked up their 2007 results at GCSE on the DCSF website. I saw that, using the set of performance indicators that the Government currently uses for all schools at GCSE, that CLC had a significant lower performance at GCSE than Pate's grammar school.
I was asking if there is a reason for this. I don't think that "spin" answers this question satisfactorily. The results on there are definitely the school's GCSE results. I had also looked on the CLC website for exam results to see how they measured themselves, but could not find anything. Perhaps they do international GCSEs which are not recognised in the Government statistics? Is this the case? Or is it something to do with the age at which the girls take their GCSEs?
However, you will see that if you take a look at the stats yourself that there are a significant minority of pupils at CLC who are not achieving 5 A*-C with or without English and Maths at GCSE. This surprised me as I had thought of it as a highly reknowned British public school, and I had counterparts from this school studying with me at Oxbridge many years ago.
I was therefore asking what it was about the school that had made Silverflora set her heart on it for her daughters such a long time ago. Presumably it does have other benefits. But if I was purely looking at its GCSE results I can think of many schools in all sectors (including non-selective independents, comprehensives, and grammar schools) that have better GCSE results.
I was also interested in why Silverflora described her daughter as having "upset the applecart" by passing for Pates. It suggested to me that her daughter had maybe had reasons of her own for sitting the exam for Pates, and these would need to be considered by Silverflora in reaching her final decision. I did not quite follow why being allowed to go to Pates for just two years was a reward.
Maybe I am being thick, but I have taken the original question at face value and have tried to point out the sort of things I would consider in reaching a final decision. But without further information it is difficult. Everyone uses their own decision factors at the end of the day in deciding on a particular school.
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Kent99
[quote]I know neither school firsthand so I looked up their 2007 results at GCSE on the DCSF website. I saw that, using the set of performance indicators that the Government currently uses for all schools at GCSE, that CLC had a significant lower performance at GCSE than Pate's grammar school.
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Which probably says something about these tables. A quick look at the CLC website shows that in 2008 53.1% of GCSE results were at A* with the large majority of the rest being at grade A. There was not a single result below a C in the whole school. The average number of exams sat was 10. Pate's 2007 results were also very good with 38.2% A*; I didn't find their 2008 results. At A level CLC had 76.6% A grades in 2008, whilst Pate's had 59.9% in 2007. Given that CLC specifically state that they don't just accept highly academic girls and encourage applications from girls who might not be expected to pass an entrance exam, this suggests that they have the higher "value added" figure even ignoring the non-academic range of opportunities.
[/quote]
Which probably says something about these tables. A quick look at the CLC website shows that in 2008 53.1% of GCSE results were at A* with the large majority of the rest being at grade A. There was not a single result below a C in the whole school. The average number of exams sat was 10. Pate's 2007 results were also very good with 38.2% A*; I didn't find their 2008 results. At A level CLC had 76.6% A grades in 2008, whilst Pate's had 59.9% in 2007. Given that CLC specifically state that they don't just accept highly academic girls and encourage applications from girls who might not be expected to pass an entrance exam, this suggests that they have the higher "value added" figure even ignoring the non-academic range of opportunities.
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herewegoagain
- Posts: 104
- Joined: Tue Sep 04, 2007 12:10 pm
I certainly didn't mean the OP should go on exam results alone. I was just slightly bemused as to where perplexed had got the info from. But it just goes to show how misleading league tables can be. I used Parent Power on the Sunday Times website. http://www.timesonline.co.uk/parentpowe ... tables.php but no doubt there are inaccuracies here as well! You can search to find the school you're interested in. Other people might find this useful as it has 2008 data.
