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PostPosted: Sat Jan 24, 2009 10:29 am 
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Has anyone come across any statistics for the proportion of GS intake from private vs state primary?


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 Post subject: Private Intake to GS
PostPosted: Sat Jan 24, 2009 11:44 am 
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The FT today has some figures from a just published study - from recollection some 15% of GS come from prep schools.

I am not sure what you should conclude from this - some on this site seem to think it is a liberty for people to go to prep school with precisely the aim of mamimising their chances of getting into Grammar school. But this is no different from those of us tutoring of children for the same to the exclusion of genuinely bright children from homes who can't afford the hundreds of pounds involved.


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 24, 2009 1:02 pm 
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I beg to differ. There is vast difference between the cost of private prep, at around £6500 a year, and the cost of the tutoring which most parents pay for, which is about an hour a week for a year - that is, around £1000 or so in total. How can you say that £1000 is the same as £40,000?

Quite apart from the fact that at private prep, theyare trained to pass the 11+ from Year 4 onwards.

As for 15% from prep, ha ha. Those figures need very careful examination!


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 24, 2009 1:13 pm 
It is not a preps schools aim to coach them for the 11+ but to provide them with an enriching education (that is not to say state schools do not do the same). They are not intensively trained to pass the 11+ from Year 4 but gently introduced to papers. In my sons school where the girls sit for 11+ schools bond assessment style papers are introduced in Year 5 but they only sit a paper in each subject once a month. If I thought prep schools were just coaching factories then I wouldn't spend £40000 but £1000!


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 24, 2009 2:40 pm 
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That's a bit disingenuous! The clue is in the name - preparatory school. That's a school whose purpose is to prepare its pupils for either 11+ or (usually) 13+. But I'm not sure why it should be considered improper in some quarters for parents who have that kind of money to choose to spend it on education rather than plasma screen TVs, 4x4s or whatever.

Mike


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 24, 2009 3:13 pm 
Yes these schools do prepare but if that was all they cared about then they would be forcing them to do papers from reception. Most parents who care about their children look for a prep school with a good ethos and excellent pastoral care, and the senior school comes second. In most of a schools advertising literature the senior school destinations are mentioned in a tiny section at the back and sometimes not at all.


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 24, 2009 4:33 pm 
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GS are known to cream off the top 10% of their applicants (10 applications to 1 place). It also seems to me that a number of good state primary schools (at least in Barnet) would have 10% of the year being accepted by GS, most of these are either tutored privately or at home.

It is interesting to see the 15% GS intake figure to be similar to the 15% figure of school children who are privately educated in UK general.

Am I right to conclude that private schooling gives little advantage over state schooling (assumed tutored) as far as 11+ selection process is concerned? Afterall, most GS tends to include non-verbal reasoning assessment which is not vocabulary/ practice dependent.


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 24, 2009 6:32 pm 
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Huntlie it's a difference in degree not kind.

I am amazed that people support this competitive/selective system - and even try to justify it is fair and good for wider society - until that is their child doesn't get it. It's a sort of arm's race: the £40k prep school GS entrant trumps the £1k tutor entrant who in turns trumps the bright working class child for whom these schools were originally meant to educate.

The schools too should hang their heads in shame - ever in search of the student intake that will boost their position in league tables.

Truth is it is one thing to do the best for your child (that really is the only justification) whether via prep or tutoring but let's not pretend this system makes sense.


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 24, 2009 6:40 pm 
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Only 7% of children in UK are privately educated - so the 15% represent double what we would expect.


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 24, 2009 10:32 pm 
Blimey, if kids at prep schools need coaching from Year 4 to pass the 11+ then they are certainly going to struggle if and when they get to GS. A few hours familiarisation is all that is needed. Only one of my DC went to a fee paying prep school, but if I had discovered that she was spending all her time practising verbal reasoning etc I would have been furious and would have removed her. Fortunately she wasn't, and guess what, she had a really great and interesting education up to the age of 13, with no boring SATS either.


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