Would you go through it again at 13+?
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13+
The headmaster of my son's prep school meets with all parents to discuss and advise on the choice of school at 13+.
According to him, a child will only sit CE for one particular school. Usually this is the school that the headmaster and parents have agreed upon as being the best fit for that child.
The expected pass mark is usually 55%-60%, however exam difficulty will vary from school to school.
My son's headmaster likes to boast that they have a near 100% success rate at getting boys into the school they have applied for. When a boy doesn't get the school he has applied for it is usually because the parents have not listened to the school's advice and have insisted that, for example, "little Johnny must go to **** school because his father and grandfather went there" So very few children actually fail the CE exam.
According to him, a child will only sit CE for one particular school. Usually this is the school that the headmaster and parents have agreed upon as being the best fit for that child.
The expected pass mark is usually 55%-60%, however exam difficulty will vary from school to school.
My son's headmaster likes to boast that they have a near 100% success rate at getting boys into the school they have applied for. When a boy doesn't get the school he has applied for it is usually because the parents have not listened to the school's advice and have insisted that, for example, "little Johnny must go to **** school because his father and grandfather went there" So very few children actually fail the CE exam.
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FirstTimeBuyer
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CE at 13+
Resmum
Whilst I can identify with everything you say, there are some nuances that I would add.
1. There may be an element of the headmaster managing expectations, and refusing to take a risk on a child for a school, so that he/she can continue with the "100% of our children found places in their first/choice school". Many of these "first-choice" schools may have started out lower down the list.
2. A large or prominent prep school will have a strong relationship with certain senior schools to which they send a substantial or high-quality contingent every year. Should one of the candidates fail to make the grade by a small margin, no doubt a certain pressure can be applied to ensure that the parents are not disappointed. One hand washes the other as the Japanese say! This would particularly be the case where waiting lists were not enormous, eg schools further from London.
3. On the other hand for the super-selective schools, the self-imposed pass mark may be as high as 75%, and both undisclosed and a moving target depending upon demand. Heads will only want their most able students to run that gauntlet. However those schools will typically have a weeding out process involving some combination VR / Non-VR / Maths and an interview. Nevertheless some will sit the CE, and never make it off the waiting list.
I am curious as to what happens to children in this last situation. Does anzone have experience of this? What do they do about finding another school?
Whilst I can identify with everything you say, there are some nuances that I would add.
1. There may be an element of the headmaster managing expectations, and refusing to take a risk on a child for a school, so that he/she can continue with the "100% of our children found places in their first/choice school". Many of these "first-choice" schools may have started out lower down the list.
2. A large or prominent prep school will have a strong relationship with certain senior schools to which they send a substantial or high-quality contingent every year. Should one of the candidates fail to make the grade by a small margin, no doubt a certain pressure can be applied to ensure that the parents are not disappointed. One hand washes the other as the Japanese say! This would particularly be the case where waiting lists were not enormous, eg schools further from London.
3. On the other hand for the super-selective schools, the self-imposed pass mark may be as high as 75%, and both undisclosed and a moving target depending upon demand. Heads will only want their most able students to run that gauntlet. However those schools will typically have a weeding out process involving some combination VR / Non-VR / Maths and an interview. Nevertheless some will sit the CE, and never make it off the waiting list.
I am curious as to what happens to children in this last situation. Does anzone have experience of this? What do they do about finding another school?
Exams are formidable for the best prepared. The greatest fool may ask what the wisest man cannot answer.
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T.i.p.s.y
I have also received feedback to this effect....T.i.p.s.y wrote:I have to disagree emmaj. I know Heads that have huge influence with certain schools. Of course if the Head doesn't think the child is suited to the school and the child does not pass then they would not use this influence to get the child in.
But, perhaps worth noting also is that there are also significant incidences where the HM or form teacher may not feel XYZ school is suitable for a particular child, yet if that child were to get in, then I know many cases where the child has excelled. This seems to indicate that given the right environment, a child can continue on to do well, very well indeed. It is unfortunate for some that sometimes the HM would have to look at paper-results before using his 'clout' - which, I'm afraid, I can also understand....still a shame tho..
PapaM
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FirstTimeBuyer
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Have to agree with Tipsy on this (as usualT.i.p.s.y wrote:I have to disagree emmaj. I know Heads that have huge influence with certain schools. Of course if the Head doesn't think the child is suited to the school and the child does not pass then they would not use this influence to get the child in.
).ALL senior schools will request a headmaster's letter from the prep school.
Super-selective schools can safely ignore prep heads' views, but even they will take their views into account especially if a letter is luke-warm. For such a school one could describe it as a necessary but not sufficent condition of entry.
Those senior schools for whom filling the seats and/or beds is an annual chore, or even a challenge, will be quite ahem considerate of prep heads' needs. This is why few fail CE.
PapaM
Good point. For a larger school, the Head may not be able to see beyond the paper results for all children. Smaller prep schools are better for that, but unfortunately their finances are more precarious.
Exams are formidable for the best prepared. The greatest fool may ask what the wisest man cannot answer.
finances are precarious...and clout is precarious too I imagine....and also precarious to be able to influence the big'uns too, I'm afraid...FirstTimeBuyer wrote:PapaM
Good point. For a larger school, the Head may not be able to see beyond the paper results for all children. Smaller prep schools are better for that, but unfortunately their finances are more precarious.
PapaM
PapaM, I have to agree on the 'clout' comment. I was actually to going post for advice myself as my DD wants to try to move schools at 13+ enrance, to be with her brother (15m younger) who's just got into a co-ed indie...more grey hairs...
The private primary school they attended usually has a 'good relationship' with this school with good numbers going each year, on the basis of discussion with the head, and the school supporting the candidates. The school had no doubt she would get in...but it was a 'bad' year , for a whole host of reasons, I suspect. We did have back-up, but both single-sex. I don't think I have realised until now just HOW upset she was about this.
We had said to her that if DS got co-ed place, and she wanted to try at 13+, it would be considered by us, knowing that not all schools happy when you try to make that transition.
She started at one indie school last September, but within 4 weeks was saying she didn't feel it was the right place for her, she was bored and there were other issues about which she was very 'mature' and insightful(her best friend had gone there too, and she had made new friends, so not that aspect)...we decided to move her at half-term (gulp!). I telephoned and e-mailed around, and the other school whose entrance exam. she had passed offered her a place (even though when my first question was ' have you any spaces' was answered 'no') - she's really settled in well, is doing well and enjoying herself...everyone happy, until DS gets into the co-ed school (at which she didn't get a place)
Although she is thriving, enjoying the work, I think she feels she's let herself down, despite all our reassurances to the contrary... her current school are unlikely to 'support' her in her attempt (local competition etc) and I don't want her to add to any woes by being disappointed a second time around....
PapaM - I really feel for you, don't know the right answer, but contacting the schools direct is certainly worthwhile. If it doesn't work out, don't be afraid to consider a move, even if it still early (a second girl has joined from my daughter's previous school in the middle of this term, having sat the entrance exam on an ad-hoc basis)
and if anyone's had any experience of the muddle we find ourselves in, let me know - so hard being a parent, eh!?
The private primary school they attended usually has a 'good relationship' with this school with good numbers going each year, on the basis of discussion with the head, and the school supporting the candidates. The school had no doubt she would get in...but it was a 'bad' year , for a whole host of reasons, I suspect. We did have back-up, but both single-sex. I don't think I have realised until now just HOW upset she was about this.
We had said to her that if DS got co-ed place, and she wanted to try at 13+, it would be considered by us, knowing that not all schools happy when you try to make that transition.
She started at one indie school last September, but within 4 weeks was saying she didn't feel it was the right place for her, she was bored and there were other issues about which she was very 'mature' and insightful(her best friend had gone there too, and she had made new friends, so not that aspect)...we decided to move her at half-term (gulp!). I telephoned and e-mailed around, and the other school whose entrance exam. she had passed offered her a place (even though when my first question was ' have you any spaces' was answered 'no') - she's really settled in well, is doing well and enjoying herself...everyone happy, until DS gets into the co-ed school (at which she didn't get a place)
Although she is thriving, enjoying the work, I think she feels she's let herself down, despite all our reassurances to the contrary... her current school are unlikely to 'support' her in her attempt (local competition etc) and I don't want her to add to any woes by being disappointed a second time around....
PapaM - I really feel for you, don't know the right answer, but contacting the schools direct is certainly worthwhile. If it doesn't work out, don't be afraid to consider a move, even if it still early (a second girl has joined from my daughter's previous school in the middle of this term, having sat the entrance exam on an ad-hoc basis)
and if anyone's had any experience of the muddle we find ourselves in, let me know - so hard being a parent, eh!?
