independent bursary vs state grammar dilemma

[coffeeandmorecoffee]

Been lurking on this board for a while and now plucked up courage to post my question... DD has passed 11+ for the girls' grammars in our area (SW London) and seems likely - though not guaranteed - to get an offer from one of them on 1st March on the basis of previous years' scores cut-off points (though can never be sure). She's also been offered a place at a local independent school on a bursary - we just applied for the one independent school as a back-up for the grammars with a lets-see-what-happens attitude but we really loved the school when we visited it. There seemed to be much more emphasis on things like friendships as well as exam results, compared to the grammar schools. Though I may be partly basing this on the contrast in the assessment process for each - state grammar tests were terrifying and felt like hundreds of nervous little girls being crammed into exam halls and reduced to numbers on a sheet of paper, whereas independent school assessment process felt much more relaxed and personal, and more interested in the whole child. Or is that just better marketing by the independent school in a competitive field? The state grammars are so over-subscribed that they don't need to market themselves very much.

So... a couple of questions: a) the bursary is very generous but it would still stretch us and I'm concerned about spending the next 7 years worrying about money all the time - esp as we have another DD 3 years younger who might also want to go there in the future. People have also warned us about the 'extras' of private education such as uniform, school trips, school dinner fees etc. I'm self-employed and my income goes up and down a lot, so hard even for an annually means-tested bursary to keep track of. Would an independent school really offer several grand's worth better education and pastoral care than a state grammar school?

b) any experiences of being on a lower income and sending your child to an independent school? Are the other pupils aware of who the 'bursary kids' are (obviously not officially, but if yours is the only child in the class without an Apple Mac...?)

It's worth adding that DD is positive about both options, and she went into the independent school selection process aware that things would partly depend on bursary issues, so she's not set her heart on it to the exclusion of all other options.

Advice please?! Thank you in advance. We're not a family with any experience of independent education so would be grateful for any pointers.

[MrsB]

The independent schools do an amazing marketing exercise, but your child will get an excellent education with either route. Our DS hated the selection process for a highly selective grammar school and came out saying he did not want to go there (even though he had liked it at the open evening) and wanted to go to the indie that we also applied for. However when he actually got into the grammar, it was all smiles and he was happy to go there, settled in and now loves it. We could have afforded the indie but were glad we opted for the grammar - you never know what is round the corner and it is nice not to have the pressure.

As others have mentioned, there will be lots of extras at the independent school (and at the grammar for that matter) so it does not end at the fees. And the school trips are often amazing (aka expensive).

I don't actually believe the education will be "better" at the indie. My DS's school results belie that myth. And in terms of the pastoral care, that can be great or not so great at both. We have friends who took their children out of one indie because of issues with bullying that were badly handled and another friend had similar issues at another indie. Hopefully that won't happen to you, but it illustrates that not all independents handle pastoral care well

[streathammum]

It's a very personal decision, because only you know the extent of your financial pressures and only you can assess the value of a private education over a grammar.

For my part, I would look at the amount of money you will be committing each year to fees and think about what else you could spend that on. In particular, what things you could buy for your DD if you didn't have to spend money on the fees, such as extra-curricular activities, family holidays, school trips, IT equipment - or maybe just putting it all into a savings account so she's got a fund for university.

If you think you can cover all those things anyway, then a private school would be an affordable 'bonus'. Otherwise, you need to decide whether the benefit of private school outweighs the loss of these other things during your DD's childhood.

The grammar schools of SW London are great. If your DD goes there she will thrive. Best of luck.

[quasimodo]

My general advice would be to choose the non fee paying school. Mrs C you have indicated that money would be a worry for 7 years at the independent school even with a generous bursary.Use the money that you could spend on schooling on the family on trips and holidays together.You also have a second child and you may need the money for other options in three years time.We don't know the identity of any of the schools but look critically at what are the perceived advantages.As an example there is no point being impressed by very impressive sports facilities at the independent if your child is not sporty and would not properly use the facilities.I have been through both at secondary school level with my children and our child at the state grammar is the happier even though it is still early days yet for our youngest.In our case I cannot measure happiness in monetary terms.The independent would have been less crowded,better facilities and in the league tables better results ( but have a brighter cohort) but sometimes you need to take a step back and reflect on what is important.

[Chester11]

I am in the similar situation and i must admit that the generous bursary and scholarship is very difficult to say no to. I think my daughter will do well no matter where she goes. I am suggested to take the offer from the indi because of a "better mix" and "more extra curricular".

[streathammum]

I think there are several factors to consider when deciding on state or fee-paying schools. The main one is whether you are offered a place at a good state school - and by good I mean one that you and your child are happy with. If not then it's much easier to accept any financial sacrifices you have to make to be able to afford private fees, because the alternative is problematic.

If you do have a good state school, and you're in the fortunate position of choosing between a good state school and your chosen private school, then those questions of value arise - whether the fees for private really are worth the 'extras'. For some very fortunate people, school fees have little impact on the family finances - for others, paying fees may mean that there are no family holidays for a decade. It is very personal and what's right for one family will be wrong for another.

[quasimodo]

These are all personal decisions depending on your financial situation and what if any fees you will have to pay and whether this will remain the same for 5 to 7 years and what is right for your family and your child.

The only concern I have with a bursary is that they are assessed annually and the figure can go up or down depending on your income or capital.Depending on the fees involved it can become a disincentive not to improve your income or capital levels if it impacts the level of the bursary.This then impacts the family.The position is made much easier if you have a large scholarship.When fees can vary from around £10,000 per annum to £40,000 per annum or higher you can understand more clearly the implications.

[kenyancowgirl]

Chester11...."better mix"

God forbid anyone mix with the hoi polloi peasants....! You are likely to get a more "real life mix" in a grammar school than at a private school...and "real life" is a far better environment, in my opinion.

We turned down a completely free place at a private school - they and lots of others thought we were mad. But we knew the school we chose offered a better fit for our son with no financial pressures - and it meant we could make "best fit" decisions for our other son when it was his time.

Ask yourself honestly, if there were no bursary, would I be considering this school? And then again, if money was no object would I be considering this school? What additional are you getting? Personally, like quasi, unless the difference is staggering, I would go for the non fee option. If your income changes so that you are no longer entitled to a bursary, then it will be taken away. This may then leave you in a situation with no bursary but not enough increase in your income to "afford" the actual fees.

[Guest55]

coffeeandmorecoffee - Given your financial circumstances I'd go with the state option.

Wow - there are some 'interesting' view on Private schools

If there is a good state option then I really don't understand why anyone would take a Private school place.

[coffeeandmorecoffee]

Thanks for all these helpful replies - totally agree that the money saved on fees could go towards things like family holidays and fun extra-curricular activities which might be more beneficial in the long run.

Also v reassuring to hear that Mrs B's son liked his grammar school in the end despite being put off by the entrance process. A major motivation in my mind for going private was potentially better welfare and pastoral care c.f. very high-pressure reputation of our nearest state grammar, which entrance exam experience only reinforced in my mind, even though DD passed comfortably (though we'll still have to see what 1st March brings!). Felt like there might be more room to breathe as well as do well academically at the indie for DD - though that's just gut feeling from open day visit.

Think I need to go back to the grammar website/talk to parents of kids there already and reassure myself it'll be OK after being dazzled by private school marketing and nice bursary offer! Going private probably feels a bit too risky financially for marginal gains at the end of the day.