dilemma
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Re: dilemma
Please don't worry ! Your son sounds so similar to mine ! Both mine were not high level 4 in yr 4 as some children are but like your son I just felt that even if they weren't deemed academic as such they most certainly are bright as your son is with his story writing and devising computer games etc .If you do little and often at home you will see a dramatic improvement in his levels and I feel for my sons that their lower levels were definitely under achievement due to the school and not them as DS1 in particular was 3b/a at the end of yr 4 but is now level 5s and level 6 in maths ( in yr 6 ) ....his potential was there but I don't think it would have been realised if I had left it up to the school. DS2 has also now gone from apparently borderline SEN in yr 2 ( although he didn't have a proper teacher for 9 months ) to now touching level 4 in maths and reading ( not writing...3c/b..but I will follow your brilliant tips in your other post to rectify that ! ) I find it quite a positive challenge now I'm in a routine and can really see the results plus the improvement in their self esteem which in turn has motivated them to work. I think your son will be fine. 
Don't forget you do have 3 months until they go into yr 5 to build on the basics and with DS1 I didn't start 11 plus work until the Jan ( he took the Kent Test in beginning September ) as I wanted him to be really secure in maths and literacy.
Don't forget you do have 3 months until they go into yr 5 to build on the basics and with DS1 I didn't start 11 plus work until the Jan ( he took the Kent Test in beginning September ) as I wanted him to be really secure in maths and literacy.Re: dilemma
Scarlett - we have a lot in common. My DS2 was also borderline SEN in literacy - right down there, unable to write his own name in Yr 1. I devised some games to help him (my background is in English) and within the year he moved to the top set and is now top in spelling and reading and among the top in writing. As you've said, it can't be left up to the school!
Re: dilemma
Hi Menagerie, interesting posts, can identify with it all, but without the "borderline SEN" as I took matters into my own hands in reading and maths with both children during the reception year and did some extra at home. The thing I'm still not clear on how best to proceed is with spelling. DD1 is in year 2 and I think her spelling is pretty rubbish, whereas her reading is great. The school spelling lists are a waste of time, and I think they have her in a pretty low group for spelling. There seem to be so many divergent views on spelling, how to teach it, which types of words to concentrate on etc etc that I'm at a loss as to how best to proceed to get the maximum gain for the least effort.
When I say her spelling is rubbish school constantly tells me it needs to improve - but they don't give me any clear assessment of what is or isn't wrong with it. She doesn't write much at home, and I don't get to see her school books, but my guess is she makes a lot of mistakes with fairly common words and is in the land of the phonically plausible rather than real spelling a lot of the time. She can learn quite complex words quite easily, but she doesn't get any in her spelling lists.
What is your method please?
When I say her spelling is rubbish school constantly tells me it needs to improve - but they don't give me any clear assessment of what is or isn't wrong with it. She doesn't write much at home, and I don't get to see her school books, but my guess is she makes a lot of mistakes with fairly common words and is in the land of the phonically plausible rather than real spelling a lot of the time. She can learn quite complex words quite easily, but she doesn't get any in her spelling lists.
What is your method please?
Re: dilemma
Hi Mystery,
First, I check whether they have a visual imagination. DS2 has a photographic memory. His spelling is perfect. If he's seen a word (and he reads a lot) he can see it again in his mind so he knows how it should be. (This btw is the borderline SEN son!) DS1 has no idea what I'm talking about when I ask if he can 'see' the word in his head, so I know with him the teaching has to be a different approach. (With visual children, it can be: do you remember seeing it in a book? How did it look?)
So with DS1 I break it down into syllables first, to check he can hear the sounds correctly and then ask him to guess how it is spelled. If he's right phonetically but wrong I write down what he says along with three other options, one of which is correct, and ask him what looks right. He almost always identifies the right word so then we discuss how he spotted it. It's a slow process but he is improving. Spelling is without doubt DS1's weakest point. He can learn for a test but once he's writing with ideas, not spelling, in mind, it falls apart.
Breaking words down into syllables helps a lot of children (doesn't help DS1 hugely but I've worked with other children where it was their breakthrough.)
First, I check whether they have a visual imagination. DS2 has a photographic memory. His spelling is perfect. If he's seen a word (and he reads a lot) he can see it again in his mind so he knows how it should be. (This btw is the borderline SEN son!) DS1 has no idea what I'm talking about when I ask if he can 'see' the word in his head, so I know with him the teaching has to be a different approach. (With visual children, it can be: do you remember seeing it in a book? How did it look?)
So with DS1 I break it down into syllables first, to check he can hear the sounds correctly and then ask him to guess how it is spelled. If he's right phonetically but wrong I write down what he says along with three other options, one of which is correct, and ask him what looks right. He almost always identifies the right word so then we discuss how he spotted it. It's a slow process but he is improving. Spelling is without doubt DS1's weakest point. He can learn for a test but once he's writing with ideas, not spelling, in mind, it falls apart.
Breaking words down into syllables helps a lot of children (doesn't help DS1 hugely but I've worked with other children where it was their breakthrough.)
Re: dilemma
Hi Menagerie, thanks for that. How do you decide which words / groups of words / types of words to concentrate on at any point in time, and which not?
Also, I was going to say to you don't be misled by the levels that your school gives you for your child each year in each subject. They are mostly teacher assessed so if for some reason your child writes fantastic stories outside school, for example, and rubbish stories in school for whatever reason, his school grade is not going to reflect what he actually can do. The child you describes sounds much better than a level 3 for English, but then there might be some "simple" things like punctuation, speech marks etc that are missing which if they were in there would up the grade.
Have you looked at what the 11+ exams in your area entail? Then you will be in a better position to judge.
My gut feeling says go with the tutoring and stay at the same school if you and your son are happy with it in other respects. I'm having similar doubts for DD1 but then the "social" side is not working out as well as it could either so neither the academic boxes nor the happiness boxes are fully ticked. The trouble is with the "social / happiness" box it's not an aspect of a school that you can kind of measure before you send your child to it as it so much depends on what happens within that particular group of children and it could always be worse somewhere else.
Also, I was going to say to you don't be misled by the levels that your school gives you for your child each year in each subject. They are mostly teacher assessed so if for some reason your child writes fantastic stories outside school, for example, and rubbish stories in school for whatever reason, his school grade is not going to reflect what he actually can do. The child you describes sounds much better than a level 3 for English, but then there might be some "simple" things like punctuation, speech marks etc that are missing which if they were in there would up the grade.
Have you looked at what the 11+ exams in your area entail? Then you will be in a better position to judge.
My gut feeling says go with the tutoring and stay at the same school if you and your son are happy with it in other respects. I'm having similar doubts for DD1 but then the "social" side is not working out as well as it could either so neither the academic boxes nor the happiness boxes are fully ticked. The trouble is with the "social / happiness" box it's not an aspect of a school that you can kind of measure before you send your child to it as it so much depends on what happens within that particular group of children and it could always be worse somewhere else.
Re: dilemma
I find this very interesting. DC1 (not a good speller even now, even though vv good at english in other ways) struggled with spellings all through primary school. One day I was asking her how to spell something and found she was looking up to the sky. I snapped at her and told her to concentrate on what she was supposed to be doing rather than daydreaming. She looked at me a bit mystified and I asked her what she was doing. She said "I'm looking at my list of words". Very visual, I guess!With visual children, it can be: do you remember seeing it in a book? How did it look?
scary mum
Re: dilemma
Unscarymum! I find my children can spell so much better when they write down the words and I find that it's easy to get confused when working it out in your head but maybe I'm not a visual speller ! My dd will trace the words on the sofa, table, dogs back to " see " them. Mystery...I agree re the levels . I was told at the last parents evening that if DS2 used any kind of punctuation at all in his writing
then he would be in the top group and into the next level.Re: dilemma
have a look at letters and sounds ( google will bring up oodles of stuff) It's very like the method that meangerie has been
using - breaking down words into phonemes and rebuilding them, best bet for the way common vowel sounds are written and 'tricky words' like my , by , etc.
It seems to have very good results and I have used it succesfully with children up to year 6.
There are a lot of games which can be played too. I make "Go Fish" games with the various families of sounds and also play snakes and ladders, at snakes head or bottom of ladder child has to spell a word. If right they don;t need to go down snake or they can go up ladder. When adult lands on either of those the child spells a word and if correct adult has to go down snake or stay at bottom of ladder. If wrong they stay on snakes head or go up ladder.
One to one teaching is very effective, stands to reason that you can get more done when you are not trying to cope with 30 other children at same time. I do both
using - breaking down words into phonemes and rebuilding them, best bet for the way common vowel sounds are written and 'tricky words' like my , by , etc.
It seems to have very good results and I have used it succesfully with children up to year 6.
There are a lot of games which can be played too. I make "Go Fish" games with the various families of sounds and also play snakes and ladders, at snakes head or bottom of ladder child has to spell a word. If right they don;t need to go down snake or they can go up ladder. When adult lands on either of those the child spells a word and if correct adult has to go down snake or stay at bottom of ladder. If wrong they stay on snakes head or go up ladder.
One to one teaching is very effective, stands to reason that you can get more done when you are not trying to cope with 30 other children at same time. I do both
Re: dilemma
Yes I love the idea of that snakes and ladders game. There are so many words in English, that is my dilemma!! And I'm getting fed up with word lists that are just done along some phonic group or other .... and my DD1 feels the same it would seem (hope I haven't passed on the feeling).
So my idea is this. I'm going to get my daughter to pick a favourite book - a short one. I will photocopy it and then cut out each word individually. She can then sort them alphabetically and I can discard the repeat words ------- after we have done some maths on the number of times each word appears in that book.
Then I'll use those words in our Spelling Snakes and Ladders. Brilliant thank you.
How many times does the adult have to pretend not to be able to spell in this game?
So my idea is this. I'm going to get my daughter to pick a favourite book - a short one. I will photocopy it and then cut out each word individually. She can then sort them alphabetically and I can discard the repeat words ------- after we have done some maths on the number of times each word appears in that book.
Then I'll use those words in our Spelling Snakes and Ladders. Brilliant thank you.
How many times does the adult have to pretend not to be able to spell in this game?
