11 Plus Exams Forum

All my posts seem to be sagas - and this will be no different!

Background: Currently my son goes to an indie in Bedford. They do not do SATs tests although they have something called InCAs which can give predictions for SATs.

My son is sitting the Bucks 11+ in February (late sitter as we only knew we were moving in November and had not applied anywhere). This also meant that we had not been doing any prep for the 11+ as this is not an exam that is sat in Bedford as there are no grammar schools. We missed qualifying for Slough with a score of 110 and now have all our eggs in the Bucks basket, hoping that we pass, then hoping we can get into the local school (I have rented a house for 12 months in Marlow).

Now. If we don't hit the magic 121 score and also miss on the appeal, he will have to go to a comprehensive and possibly sit the 12+ next year. Bearing in mind that he is doing "normal" stuff at his current school and no direct SATs work, he will HAVE to get good level 5s in his SATs.

He is starting a new school for his final term of year 6 in Marlow - so will be sitting the SATs along with the rest of the children. But clearly he has not been doing the right work to prepare for these tests, so if he gets level 5s it will be a miracle!

Are all the SATs held at the same time, and if so, when are they? What actually comprises the SATs tests? - English and Maths I know, but what is writing and reading? (I know what they are, of course, but in terms of the tests) and is there a science test?

And is there anything else that I need to know! If he passes the Bucks exam, then I won't get too hung up on mega results in his SATs, but if he needs to do the 12+ next year, then clearly the SATs are really important for him!

Thanks for any help

Hi Faitaccompli,
The SATS are in May. I think they've phased out the Science SAT?
I think from what I've read here, and someone better informed will be along soon, that Appeals Boards are also interested in CAT scores which- (I could be wrong here)- may be more a level of innate intelligence so try not to panic too much about the SATS.

Some teachers will be along with the exact make up of the SATs - they seem to change frequently, for example science is not longer tested formally. They are all held in one week in May, and I think I'm correct in saying they can only be done then. There are workbooks that you can buy to practice - why don't you do this and it will give you an idea of whether he is on the right range? How long will you have to wait for the Bucks result? How is he doing in timed practice papers? At 12 plus you can appeal for the right to be tested, and I would have thought moving schools was a good reason (bearing in mind I know nothing about such things ). If your DS did have to do the 12 plus, there might be an issue in getting him a place then. Have you looked at how full the local grammar schools are?

Thanks!

I have to wait a week (or less) for the Bucks result. The Langley one was out within 4 days ... I suppose one benefit of being disorganised and late testing means the wait is not so bad ...

He is doing timed papers and is scoring between 85% (Walsh) and 97% (the Bucks provided test 2 practice) - so in theory ought to be able to score the required 121. It totally depends on how many antonyms and synonyms he gets wrong!

The local grammar schools are all full to overflowing I believe. But I am an optimistic person and have my fingers crossed that it will all work out in the end ... hope so, as currently, there is no plan B ...

Bit more info in the post today - he scored a CAT average of 115 from entrance exams to his senior school a few weeks ago - broken down as:
NVR 111
Quantitative 123
VR 112

I assume these are standard tests that mean something nationally?

The letter also says that during lesson observation he received a comment of "impressive" and he finished 14 out of 77 pupils in his year (there are at least 10 on the G&T register and it is a selective indie) - will all this look good as academic evidence if we need a Bucks appeal? The finishing position of 14th also took into account an internal assessment average score which is obviously not a comparable figure, but it looks like he scored extremely well on his oral assessment which may well have pulled him up the rankings in the overall assessment final placing.

It is a shame there is an appalling typo on the letter if I have to show it to anyone though!!! But I am grateful that the school has given me the information early!

If he passes the Bucks exam, then I won't get too hung up on mega results in his SATs, but if he needs to do the 12+ next year, then clearly the SATs are really important for him

!

Having been through exactly this issue with our two, I think this is the correct approach.

Bucks GSs take no notice of the SATs results so if passes they become largely irrelevant. However, if he misses out on the 11+ it is important that he gets level 5s so he can take the 12+ a year later if you wish (though as scary mum says you can appeal for the right to take the 12+). Also bear in mind that several Bucks GSs now administer their own tests for entry post-11+ – Sally-Anne will be able to clarify which GSs do this I’m sure.

I doubt those CAT scores are sufficiently high for you to win an 11+ appeal, sorry.

On your last point, though, if your son does get 121 or more in the 11+, I believe the county are legally obliged to find him a GS place, though of course that doesn’t have to the nearest one to you.

You need to find a paper on the web (I think there is one somewhere on the GL assessment website or the DfE website) which shows what percentage of the population gets what CAT scores. The answer is not the same as for 11+ scores - I think this might be where some schools go wrong, and I think Rob might be jumping to a big conclusion too. I think that most or all of those scores you have quoted put your child comfortably within the top 25% of the population. You need to double-check.

I *think* looking at the website it says that 115 is equivalent to the top 23% of children (over 112) - I had assumed that I was looking for a 121 score which equates to the Bucks pass, hence my call for help as I didn't even know he had a CAT score until this morning!

So the CAT scores may be helpful in an appeal?

He told me he (yet again) raced through the test and had several minutes left at the end where he gazed out of the window. If only I could get him to go a little slower and check the answers just a couple of times a year we may actually get somewhere ...

Looking on GL assessment website I see a document which says that 111 puts you in top 23%. Maybe you need to contact GL assessment with the exact dates of papers etc your child sat. Also who marked and standardised it ....... errors are always possible!

What percentage of bucks children get places? I know there is always the argument that somehow Bucks children are more intelligent than in other counties so you might need a higher CAT score to prove that your son is in the top x % of Bucks candidates rather than the top x% of the population as a whole!!

mystery wrote:Looking on GL assessment website I see a document which says that 111 puts you in top 23%. Maybe you need to contact GL assessment with the exact dates of papers etc your child sat. Also who marked and standardised it ....... errors are always possible!

What percentage of bucks children get places? I know there is always the argument that somehow Bucks children are more intelligent than in other counties so you might need a higher CAT score to prove that your son is in the top x % of Bucks candidates rather than the top x% of the population as a whole!!

I did see a document where Bucks was slightly higher than some of the others, but not that much higher! He sat the exam in Bedfordshire, which is where we are living at the moment. I have no idea who marked it - the test was sat by around 250 children competing for 100 or so places at his senior school - it is computerised so assume that mistakes are quite hard to make? Good idea about contacting GL - will do that and find out!

Many thanks!

eta - question asked - waiting with baited breath ...