A few queries re level 6 English

[kenyancowgirl]

moved: "Obviously it wasn't actually 0%, but plenty of children didn't get the level and then went on to be assessed as L6 in term 1 of year 7 because writing is then taken into account rather than just comprehension and inference."

This is a very very clear explanation moved - certainly the nuances of inference are what our Y6 teacher has always said he felt uncomfortable with assessing as at L6 as it is something that is hard for primary kids to do over and over and over.

mystery: "On this thread people refer o an English level 6 paper. There is o such thing. There is a spag level 6 paper, and a reading level 6 paper."

Yes, you are right, it changed last year, but when time is tight, it is so much easier to quickly write Level 6 English and, certainly, since the new test was introduced, anyone in our school that attempted L6 did both spag and reading (i.e. I'm not even sure you can take one without the other!)

Personally, we have not, nor do we intend to, teach/tutor/coach/practice (delete as necessary!) our children for the SATs tests. The reality is, fortunately, the secondary schools around us, all do their own assessments when the children get there and take far more notice of those for setting etc. I think the constant pressure on kids is wearing for me as an adult, let alone them as kids! Fundamentally, if they are achieving L5 in Y6 then they are way above the expected L4B at the end of Y6 and we should applaud that!

[Peridot]

I will second what kenyancowgirl has just said. At my daughter's primary school last year quite a few children achieved level 6 in maths, and the school seemed to think it was time well spent in extending the higher maths sets' knowledge of maths topics and techniques. But the reading is another thing entirely - again a few were entered but my DD was the only one in the year to achieve the level 6 (so she's part of that 0%!). It hasn't mattered one jot now she is in year 7 as they reassess them straight away and assessment is ongoing and rigorous. I looked at some level 6 example papers and found them very irritating; they are looking for such specific ways of answering that it would take a lot of time and effort for class teachers as they would need to teach to the test - time that could be much better spent on other work - which is probably why a lot of schools don't bother. I wouldn't waste any time at home on it either, personally. The important thing is for the able children to achieve level 5, which is the school's job. It is not necessary to coach/tutor outside school for SATS.

[mystery]

moved:

mystery: "On this thread people refer o an English level 6 paper. There is o such thing. There is a spag level 6 paper, and a reading level 6 paper."

Yes, you are right, it changed last year, but when time is tight, it is so much easier to quickly write Level 6 English and, certainly, since the new test was introduced, anyone in our school that attempted L6 did both spag and reading (i.e. I'm not even sure you can take one without the other!)

I don't think there was a level 6 "English" paper ever was there? Same way there was never an English level 3 to 5 KS2 test was there?

I'm pretty sure it is possible for schools to enter children for SPAG and not reading, or vice versa.

The optional nature of all of this has, I think, caused some problems. If future years in the new curriculum I don't think it will necessary to enter some children separately for a harder exam. It will all be rolled up into one exam. (Goodness knows how this works though --- assessing levels 3 to (primary level) 6 within one paper for 10/11 year olds sounds very difficult to me).

Certainly our school would not be wanting to put children in for level 6 SPAG - no-one stands a chance as, so far as I can tell, they don't start teaching any SPAG to speak of until year 6. The head doesn't know what it is about either. She entered one child for level 6 SPAG in its first year and was surprised that she didn't pass because she was a "gifted and talented creative writer". Why did she think this meant she could pass level 6 SPAG without having been taught the stuff?

[kenyancowgirl]

Mystery, I bow to your superior knowledge here - I guess our school got it wrong! Certainly, when my oldest son took it two years ago, the school referred to it as the English and Maths SATs at Level 6 - there were different papers within the English (short writing, long writing and reading comprehension - if memory serves me right.) Certainly since last year, the teachers are talking more in terms of SPAG and reading but still refer to it generically as English. I don't have a problem with this at all as, my understanding of English is that it should encompass all these things anyway and, I assume the teachers couch it in these terms because most people would. I can't comment on whether the staff teach them enough to get through a L6 - my instinct says no in the English, as the amount they would need to know is far above normal primary level. However, I would expect my son to get a L6 Maths. My son's teacher has asked if he can put him in for both Maths and English (spag and reading) I have no problem with this, even though I know the teacher assessment will not give him higher than a 5A in the English paper, regardless of how well he does on the L6 - it's all good practice for secondary. As I've already said, I leave this bit to the teacher's knowledge as I don't get ground up in the minutiae of it as I really don't believe I should be coaching/preparing my children for the SATs tests.

[mystery]

No I agree - but on the other hand I am more concerned that my children use decent grammar and punctuation and, with a bit of luck, spelling too than I am that they do a creative writing piece that hits either the level 5 or 6 buttons. At our school they seem to spend years teaching the "creative writing" (without much success I can tell you) but not the nuts and bolts. I suspect this might be why SPAG was brought in.

All these different elements of English are quite separate; there is no reason why a rubbish creative writer shouldn't get a level 5 or 6 SPAG and vice versa. There is a short piece of writing needed in the SPAG test, but the way it is marked is to do with SPAG - nothing else. It's presumably to show that when you are writing you can put the SPAG into action. The teacher assessed long writing piece is a bit different in this respect -- but SPAG does have, to a degree, be taking into account.

So I have bought a Letts Guide to SPAG - levels 3 to 6. We now have a "literacy" section in our G L 11plus exam. I've looked through the English papers by GL assessment and, apart from the comprehension, they don't look too much different from SPAG. So it's another thing I need to do at home because I don't think school does it very much at all .... so here in Kent whether one believes in coaching for KS2 tests or not is a bit by the by.

Also, anyone who has done some preparation for 11plus maths has, at the same time, done some coaching for the maths KS2 tests.

[moved]

From the assessment consultation doc (my words and can't find the right doc, so sorry if inaccurate, but...): There won't be any tiered tests from 2016; all children will have access to all maths, comprehension (reading) and grammar (GPS), unless they are below the level of the test, in which case teacher assessment will be used.

[mystery]

Yes that's right. It takes away the vagaries of teacher decisions as to whether it is worth teaching a child some level 6 material or not. But the thought of a test that can test levels 3 to 6 accurately in the length of time a 10 year old can tolerate and without it looking too terrifying for a 3/4 child I find inconceivable.