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 Post subject: Appeal
PostPosted: Thu May 07, 2009 8:15 pm 
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Joined: Thu May 07, 2009 8:11 pm
Posts: 5
Location: Berkshire
I was anxious that I can be identified by my name in the original thread, hence I have re-logged as new user...

The day finally arrived...
We were appealing for oversubscription (our 1st choice GS), Twin 1 has been accepted by this GS and Twin 2 scored a pass mark
The school rep said their bit, We said (read!) our bit. We were only asked 3 questions:
1. What did your DS said when he came out of the exam, was he happy? - we said he actually came out more confident than Twin 1.
2. Were your sons coached?
3. What did DS score in Slough and Bucks test and which school has he been acccepted on and what number was this school on your choice - Why would they ask this? will these scores/choice affect their decision?

We were delighted at that time that the appeal went so quick and we were not grilled as much as we thought we would be, as well as, are now anxious that did they have enough information to make a decision either way?! Oh dear...

In Dilemma. :(


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu May 07, 2009 8:31 pm 
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Joined: Thu May 07, 2009 8:11 pm
Posts: 5
Location: Berkshire
thank you for all your encouraging responses...x


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu May 07, 2009 9:25 pm 
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Joined: Thu Nov 02, 2006 9:10 pm
Posts: 1068
Location: Lincolnshire
It is not always straightforward to read the minds of the panel from the number of questions they ask and the nature of the questions. Very few questions could mean that you had already told them everything they felt they needed to know in your submission. The first two questions sound rather like fillers (though I do not know the attitude to coaching in your area). The third may have a bearing on the weighing up of the prejudice to the school in taking an extra pupil and that to your child in not getting a place - if you have a "good" alternative the prejudice to your child is not quite so great than if you have a very "poor" alternative. Similarly, being allocated your second choice may be seen as better than being allocated something right at the bottom of your list or something not on your list at all. The questioning about scores may be to see whether your child underperformed in this particular exam in comparison to the others he took - if the other scores were high(er) they might be inclined to think that they are a better reflection of the true ability than this one.
If I recall your first post you also asked about a remark made by the presenting officer - sounded to me like he was doing his best to help you - sympathetic to your case and making sure the panel knew that.

Word of caution though - this is just my reading of it and I could be way off target.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri May 08, 2009 12:31 pm 
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Joined: Thu May 07, 2009 8:11 pm
Posts: 5
Location: Berkshire
thank you Alex for your honest analysis. You have only confirmed my fear. I am not at all convinced that we will get a positive outcome but as they say - hope for the best until you hear the worst...


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri May 08, 2009 1:03 pm 
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Joined: Mon Dec 12, 2005 5:26 pm
Posts: 7059
I agree entirely with Alex's comments. The school rep. was being incredibly helpful to you, but you never know which way the panel will go.

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Etienne


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri May 08, 2009 2:41 pm 
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Joined: Thu Dec 18, 2008 10:12 am
Posts: 3758
Location: Berkshire
Sorry to ask a question here , and I hope 3's mum has a succesful outcome.

I am just curious as to why the school you have been allocated has any bearing on the outcome of your appeal. In my view that has absolutely nothing to do with your reasons for appealing to your 1st choice school, and it should be of no interest to the panel.

Thanks, and sorry for butting in 3's mum - I'm sure you will be lucky - good luck, fingers crossed for you

LFH


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri May 08, 2009 3:50 pm 
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Joined: Mon Dec 12, 2005 5:26 pm
Posts: 7059
Although I agree with Alex's analysis of why the question may have been asked, I have some sympathy with LFH's point.

As we know, order of preference cannot be one of the admissions criteria. With regard to appeals, the wording in the CoP seems cautious:
Quote:
3.7 The admission authority concerned may submit, as part of its evidence to the panel, that the child in question has been allocated a place at an alternative school. This may be of particular relevance where the question of distance between home and school is being discussed. Equally, it is open to the appellant to state any reasons why an alternative school would be less suitable. With coordinated admissions schemes, this may be appropriate where an appellant is appealing against refusal of admission to one preferred school, but has either been offered a place at another preferred school or, if none of their preferences could be met, has been allocated a place at an alternative school. However, how an appellant has ranked their preferences on the common application form (e.g. if they are appealing for a lower ranked preference school than the one they have been offered) need not be a factor in the panel’s consideration unless this is directly relevant to the grounds for appeal.

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Etienne


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri May 08, 2009 6:19 pm 
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Joined: Thu Nov 02, 2006 9:10 pm
Posts: 1068
Location: Lincolnshire
I do have some sympathy Lfh. However I do also think that the offered school and where and whether it was one on the preference list can be a factor which panels may and sometimes should take into account.
To use a made up but possible scenario in my own county:

School A is a Grammar which allocates places on score order.
Three appellants, Ms White, Mr Green and Mr Brown all had children who reached the qualifying score but did not score highly enough to gain a place. They all have different scores, ranging from just 1 below the cut off mark to several below. They all have a variety of reasons for their appeals, including amongst them evidence that the child(ren) underperformed in the tests and might have scored considerably higher, having a sibling in the school, strong correlation between the child’s areas of talent/interest and the school’s specialism, friendship groups, previous bullying from children going to the allocated school and that the school has a particularly good reputation and outstanding remarks from ofsted about the way they deal with special needs.

Ms White put School A first, followed by School B, another Grammar a little further away but with good transport links (and she can afford the bus fares), and the local comprehensive third. Her son has been offered a place at School B.

Mr Green put School A first, followed by School C, a local popular secondary modern school which is the nearest school to the home address (he knew they lived too far away to have any chance of being offered School B), followed by School D, the next nearest non-selective school. His child has been offered none of their choices. Although School C is their nearest, they are in a rural area and they live 2 miles further away than the last child to get a place; similarly School D has filled up with children who live nearer. Their allocated school is just over 20 miles away. The journey will involve a nearly 2 mile walk to the next village to pick up a bus into the town where his daughter will change buses for the onward journey to the school. They will not have to pay for transport but the lack of good public transport in their rural area will mean that she will never be able to stay after school for any activities, if she misses the bus in the morning she will not be able to get to school, and her parent will find it difficult to pick her up should she become ill in the school day as Mr G does not have a car. The school has an intake of well below average ability students and less than 30% of its students get 5 GCSEs A*-C.

Mr Brown put School A first. He put School B second, but lives far too far away for his child to be allocated a place and School E third –this school is an extremely popular Comprehensive over 15 miles away and rarely goes out more than 5 or 6 miles on first allocations. He has not been allocated any of his choices and his son has been offered a secondary modern school some 9 miles away which has poorish results, though over 30% of pupils achieve 5 GCSEs at A*-C. There are two other secondary modern/comprehensive schools nearer to him which are far more successful academically but they have filled up with people who put them on their forms. There is a direct bus to the allocated school and he will get free transport.

Should the appeal panel take into account the allocated school, where and whether it was on the preference list and whether the schools the parent put on their list were “sensibleâ€


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat May 09, 2009 9:09 am 
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Joined: Thu Dec 18, 2008 10:12 am
Posts: 3758
Location: Berkshire
I understand what you are saying Alex, but it is not fair to disadvantage someone at appeal just because the panel think that the appellant's allocated school is good enough for them.
In our case, and we do live a considerable distance away from the grammar that we appealed for, the school wich we have been given (2nd on our list) is even further away.
Yes it is a good school, but that is neither here nor there - it is not our first choice school.
Why should parents who make informed choices be penalised in this way? We looked at the schools in our area and chose wisely so that we didn't end up at the worst school in the area, perhaps this has backfired and is now the reason we were not succesful in our appeal.
LFH


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 Post subject: appeals general
PostPosted: Sat May 09, 2009 9:47 am 
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Joined: Tue Feb 24, 2009 9:50 am
Posts: 120
Location: surrey
I would be interested to know how far away school A is from all your cases.
It is often the case that parents are more than happy to send their child to a grammar school 10 miles away but protest when the local authoirty allocates them a comprehensive school a similar distance away.


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