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 Post subject: Appealing for twins
PostPosted: Wed May 27, 2009 1:28 pm 
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Hi,

I am appealing for my twins. My Son whom we are appealing on the bases of non- qualification. He has issues with his reading and writing. He was assesed in 2006 with the assessments saying that he had visual, motor skills and handwriting issues. After he sat the 11 plus exams he missed the pass mark on both grammer schools by 7 and 11 marks. We wanted to appeal and were given advice to have our son reassessed. We did that and it showed that our son still had difficulties with his english but he was an able mathamatician. We used this information with our first appeal. We also had his CATS&SATS results and a letter from the head. We were unsuccessful. We have another appeal on the 4th of june. I would appeciate some help on how to approch this appeal. We did not question the head when he gave his reasons for not admitting our son. Should we have? Ok now on to my daughter. She passed her grammar school exams. We are appealing on the over subscription criteria. We have attended one appeal and are waiting for the result. We showed them our daughters CATS&SATS, a letter from her head and the head also attended the appeal. We dont know if there was anything else we could have done. Her next appeal is on the 12th of june. Would appeciate some advice.

Thanks
rainbow mum :)


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PostPosted: Wed May 27, 2009 4:53 pm 
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Dear rainbow mum

Where non-qualification is concerned, most parents do not question the other side's case - and usually it's not necessary. It's not clear whether in your particular case there were any issues that needed challenging (e.g. refusal to allow extra time for moderate dyslexia, or whether any internal review was carried out in a fair, consistent and objective manner).

Have you read the Q&As? Follow link at top of page and go to section B.

For oversubscription, go to section C. The sort of arguments usually put forward are listed in C2.

Academic evidence is not usually relevant in an oversubscription appeal, unless:
    1. score was one of the oversubscription criteria, and you're seeking to prove that your daughter was expected to score even more highly than she did, or
    2. you're seeking to match your daughter's ability in a particular subject with something that the grammar school specialises in.

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Etienne


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed May 27, 2009 7:44 pm 
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Hi Etienne,

Thankyou for your reply. Regarding my son the head at the appeal said that my son would not cope in a grammar school enviroment based on his results though he was above average. The chair asked the head would allowances have been made had they been made aware of my son situation. The head replyed that he would have to ask his staff and my sons present school. I do not know what to make of that. I am worried that the next appeal will go the same way and wonder what we could do to convince the panel to take a serious look at our sons situation. We did feel that the head was'nt interested in our sons situation.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed May 27, 2009 8:52 pm 
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Dear rainbow mum

The panel had to consider whether there was a failure on the part of the GS to take reasonable measures (for example, allow extra time).

If the GS didn't know about your son's visual/motor skills problems, then they cannot have done anything wrong.

The panel were then wondering what would have happened if the school had known. The head, in effect, replied that he would need more information in order to answer that question.

Was there any indication in the assessment you had done that your son would need special arrangements such as extra time? Are there any special arrangements for him at his present school?

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Etienne


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed May 27, 2009 9:24 pm 
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Dear Etienne.

I can see what you are saying. In the assesement we had done it said in the summary and I quote " **** has a history of hearing loss as well as weaknesses in visual motor areas, which though not falling within the classic dyslexia definition, have resulted in a slower pace of learning and the need for some additional support. Unlike many pupils who have experienced similiar difficulties **** did not have extra time allowances in entrance exams. With allowances he may well have reached required levels and been offered a place. It is recommended that his papers are reconsidered in the light of the results of assessements" end of quote. My son was recieving extra support from his current school but it was withdrawn leading us to believe that he had overcome his difficulties. I hope that you can analize this info, I thought that this would make our case stronger:( Also said in the summary I quote" Alongside discrepancies between ability and literacy attainments is evidence that **** has real talent for numbers. His attainment on the test of number skills was exceptionally high and within the most able 1%. He clearly has particular abilities in this area which make him an attractive prospect for his nex school" end of quote. I had hoped that this would make our sons case stronger. Am I wrong to think that. Please help.

Thankyou
Rainbow mum


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed May 27, 2009 10:46 pm 
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Dear Rainbow mum

I'm uneasy about the head's comment at the appeal (your son "would not cope in a grammar school environment based on his results though he's above average"). If I had been on the panel, I would have asked "Does the school not have any special needs provision?" If he felt unable to answer the question about what would have happened if the school had known about the visual & motor skills problem, is he any more qualified to comment on how a bright boy (top 1%, numerical reasoning) might cope, given the necessary support? We don't know how strongly the panel were influenced by the head's comment, or whether they took into account any special needs provision, but it might be worth trying to get access to the clerk's notes to see if they shed any light:
http://www.elevenplusexams.co.uk/11plus ... ers.php#d4

For what it's worth, as far as I can tell, I think you have quite a good case. The outcome of these appeals, I suspect, has more to do with how strict the panel are, rather than anything you do.

The odds are against most appeals succeeding, but your son should be proud of how well you are representing his interests.

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Etienne


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed May 27, 2009 11:21 pm 
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Dear Etienne,
I did feel uncomfortable about the heads comments. My husband and I will strongly consider getting the clerks notes. By the way we are appealing to four differnt schools and the clerk to all of them is the same. Is that common? You have given me some ideas on how to approach the next one. Thankyou for that :D Will keep you informed.

Regards
rainbow mum


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu May 28, 2009 12:03 am 
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Yes, it can happen that you get the same clerk, but this shouldn't make any difference.

Please come back if we can be of any further help.

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Etienne


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat May 30, 2009 3:36 pm 
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Joined: Wed May 27, 2009 12:30 pm
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Dear Etienne,

Hi I am back. I have recieved the statment from the school we are appealing for our daughter. This is what they are saying in one paragraph.

The schools approved admission number of 180 was agreed with the Local Authority in 1998 and is compatiable with the Authority's responsibility to ensure a sufficient supply of Secondary school places in the area. The net capacity of the school measured using the goverment net capacity asessemnet method for secondary schools is 1242, comprising 900 11-16 places and 342 sixth form places. At January 2009(the most recent school census collection return), the total number on roll was 1230 comprising 898 in years 7-11 and 332 in the sixth form.

Would it be possible for you to tell me what it means. Is it something that we can use in our presentation regarding the prejudice point? I am feeling a little low today as we recieved the news that we were unsuccessful for our appeal for our daughter. We have one more appeal to go and I am looking for help and advice.

Thankyou
Rainbow Mum


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat May 30, 2009 3:59 pm 
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Sorry to hear you have had more bad news - do keep going - most of us have been through this and know that, eventually, the cloud lifts.

1242, comprising 900 11-16 places and 342 sixth form places.

January 2009(the most recent school census collection return), the total number on roll was 1230 comprising 898 in years 7-11 and 332 in the sixth form.


That means the school is under the number of pupils it can take -

it has 900-898 ie 2 spare places in Yrs 7 to 11 and 10 spare sixth form places.

I presume it is saying it has reached the 180 for Y7 entry in September 2009


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