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 Post subject: Clerk's notes
PostPosted: Fri Jul 10, 2009 6:12 pm 
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Joined: Thu Dec 18, 2008 10:12 am
Posts: 3758
Location: Berkshire
Hello everyone,

I am just beginning to wonder if whenever we do get to see these elusive notes that the clerk has made of our appeal, what should be in them?
I see from the Q & As that they need not be a verbatim record, but should they show how they came to their decision regarding our appeal?

Possibly other posters who have succesfully gained access to theirs might give me a clue as to what to expect?

Thanks

LFH


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jul 10, 2009 7:08 pm 
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Joined: Mon Dec 12, 2005 5:26 pm
Posts: 7059
A few quotes from ombudsman reports which might be of interest:
Quote:
The Ombudsman was concerned that the discussion at the appeal hearings was not
adequately recorded in the clerk’s very brief notes. Because of this the Ombudsman could
not identify what, if any, evidence the school put forward about why the admission of
more children would cause prejudice to the efficient and effective education of others in
the school. He could not conclude, therefore, that the panel had sufficient information to
come to the view that prejudice would be caused by the admission of additional children.


Quote:
There are no notes of the questions asked at the appeals, the panel’s discussion, or how
they decided which appeals should be allowed.


Quote:
The Ombudsman also noted, in relation
to the individual hearings, that there
were no notes of the panel’s discussion
of the appeals or how they decided
which appeals should be allowed. It was
not possible from the contemporaneous
evidence to show that the panel reached
its decisions properly. The Ombudsman
could not be satisfied that the panel
gave proper consideration to Ms S’s
appeal.

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Etienne


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jul 10, 2009 7:09 pm 
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Location: Berkshire
Thanks Etienne :lol: :lol:


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jul 15, 2009 12:05 pm 
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Posts: 1268
LFH, we have clerk’s notes and feel they are a pretty fair reflection of the appeal hearing.

As I have said before (many time :lol: ), we weren’t entirely happy with the way the appeal was conducted, and definitely very unhappy that our panel allowed a new piece of evidence to appear in the summing-up.

However, the notes are more comprehensive than we had expected and accurately cover most of the salient points, and the panel’s recommendation does show quite clearly how they reached the decision they did.

Etienne, I’m assuming the panel have a three-way discussion, but then each write their own summing up? Our panel were not unanimous.

If you’d like, I could PM you the individual summing up of each member of the panel, it’s quite enlightening to see which aspects of the case were highlighted by those who turned down our appeal compared to which were highlighted by those who allowed it…


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jul 15, 2009 12:06 pm 
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Posts: 1268
Apologies, no idea why that posted twice.

Could a moderator please delete one?

Many thanks


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jul 15, 2009 12:16 pm 
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Location: Berkshire
Thank you Rob, it is good of you to share - we are still waiting for our notes.
Not only has the clerk gone on holiday, but I think the LGO investigator has too :roll:
Not cross at LGO, obviously, but just very disappointed altogether by the whole process.

And would really love to see what the clerk has written 8)


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jul 15, 2009 12:59 pm 
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Location: Gloucestershire
Rob Clark wrote:
If you’d like, I could PM you the individual summing up of each member of the panel, it’s quite enlightening to see which aspects of the case were highlighted by those who turned down our appeal compared to which were highlighted by those who allowed it…


I'd be surprised if the panel wrote down their own summing up - that's for the clerk to do - my notes are destroyed after the appeal. However, the clerk should write down all the points the panel members have considered and what opinions each of us had on them (if not unanimous).

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Capers


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jul 15, 2009 1:13 pm 
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Ah yes thanks for the clarification, Capers.

You’re quite right of course, summing up is written by the clerk and initialled by each panel member next to their ‘bit’.

In our case, much store was set by the HT’s (lack of) recommendation. However, when questioned directly by LA rep, HT admitted that a better understanding of the impact of DD’s medical condition might have affected her level of recommendation – it is this information which we feel should have been put before the panel at an earlier stage in the proceedings to enable us to pursue the point.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jul 15, 2009 4:19 pm 
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Quote:
I’m assuming the panel have a three-way discussion, but then each write their own summing up?
Unless the system has changed, there is a three-way discussion, and then each panel member summarises very briefly the main reasons for their final decision, and 'dictates' for the clerk. I would have thought the reasons would usually be noted almost word for word because the panel have to initial the statements individually attributed to them.

This structured approach is above and beyond what is specified in the Code of Practice, and would be used only for 'selection' appeals in Rob's LA. I believe it was introduced with the approval of the ombudsman.

In other authorities the format may well be different, and at the discretion of the clerk who is required only to follow the broad guidelines laid down in the Code.

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Etienne


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jul 17, 2009 11:39 am 
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Location: Berkshire
Why oh why don't all areas follow the same process? Surely if the appeals code is meant to be followed then all admissions authorities should carry out the process in the same way even down to the finer details eg clerk's notes.
We have still not got to see our notes, what on earth does this clerk have to hide, the LGO has gone on holiday and it's the end of the school term today.
Will there be a chance for a second appeal during the summer, or should we just forget about it and move on ?
I feel I have spent so much time over the past 8 months trying to sort this injustice out and now nothing can come of it, because holidays etc of all the other parties involved - not ours - we have cancelled any plans we had to go away in the summer :cry:

Very very disappointed in how this has turned out, and sicerely wish I had just accepted the result.
Interestingly, our youngest son's SATs results prove beyond doubt that he is our smartest child - all predictions of 5s came true (very high marks), just the appeals panel refused to believe the predictions.

LFH


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