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PostPosted: Mon Mar 08, 2010 11:32 pm 
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Hi everyone i discover this site last year and have been following some of the concerns about 11+ and Grammar schools. I am now in a position of some people you have helped and i am hoping you might be able to advice me. My DD goes to Bexley sch but we come under Greenwich. She took the 11+ but missed by 1 mark. HT review failed and she was not very well before and on the day of test. We were told to include 1/2 of the grammars on the CAF anyhow whilst as HT review has been requested. She was not given any schools on her list and we have been advice by friends that we can apeal and i have been following some of the threads and i want to find out if that is the case. If so who do we appeal to the individual schools or to Bexley council? Also do we ask the schools to put her on their waiting list? what is the best way to go about it? Please help as we have been contacting the schs and Bexley they keep shutting doors on our face. Is it possible to guide us through this process if there is one.


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 09, 2010 10:08 am 
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Location: Bexley
Hi Imagine,

Waiting lists and appeals are different. Unless things have changed recently, waiting lists are held by the schools and you appeal through the Council.

Waiting lists - you can go on any waiting list for any school on your caf.
Technically your child was not selective but a list is kept by each grammar school where the children have missed by 1 or 2 marks. Please be aware that gaining a place this way is almost unheard of nowadays as every other child who has passed needs to be offered a grammar place ahead of your child first.

Also, I'm under the impression that Bexley Council only allow you to go on one waiting list rather than on each at every named school but you will need to check this out. It may be different if you have not got any offer fron your caf.

You can also apply to any school with vacancies although the council probably won't be able to help you there until after the deadline for acceptances next Monday.

Grammar Appeals - with one mark short, yes appeal. But again, there are many kids out there who are short by just one mark. You will need strong academic eveidence. In Bexley you will need to show that your child is working at 5b in maths and english at the time of the tests to have any realistic chance of an appeal succeeding. A 5 in science is also good. Lower than this might work in other areas but it's normally not sufficient in Bexley.

You say your child was ill. You will be very hard to get a sympathetic ear during an appeal as Bexley's literature states that you must not send your child in to the tests if they are ill as allowances will not be made later. If your child became ill during the tests, and this cannot have been forseen, then you will have more of a chance.

Please do appeal. You have nothing to lose and everything to gain. It's extremely difficult to win a Bexley appeal but it can be done. What were the grammars on the caf? You have better odds at some of the grammars than at others.

Other appeals - these are normally distance. Check the admissions criteria for each school. If you are in Greenwich then the chances are that you will not gain a place purely on distance. Is there another reason why your child needs the particular school? What were the other schools on the caf?

Maybe this thread might be better in the appeals section? Could one of the mods move it please? Hope that's ok with Imagine?


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 09, 2010 11:13 pm 
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Hi Tracy
Thank you for your feed back it is very helpful.
Can you tell me if for the waiting list who do i contact to have DD name added to it? Is it the schs or Bexley council? Do i need to put it in writing to the schs or to the council and request DD's name to be place on the list?
The grammars we put down on the caf are Townley, Bexley, Chis and sid we had high hopes that the HT review will be successful hence and now i wish i hadn't. Others on the list st catherine and st ursula.
Thank you for your encouragement and we intend to appeal as you say we have nothing to lose.


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 10, 2010 11:09 am 
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Location: Bexley
You are with Greenwich council and my experience is with Bexley and Kent so things could be slightly different.

Contact Greenwich and tell them you want to go on all the waiting lists if at all possible. If you can only pick one, then pick the one where you think you will be higher up the list. Phone each school to check this although this can and does change on a daily basis.

Appeals. Forget C & S. I don't know what is going on there but appeals are simply not won regardless of how good the case is. Try BGS although your best bet will be Townley. Appeal to them both. Contact Greenwich and tell them you wish to appeal.

St Cath's and St Ursula's (is that one Catholic?). How is your church attendance? To succeed here either weekly or at least fortnightly attendance is required. Are you Catholic? Have you had your dd baptised, has she taken First Holy Communion? How far are you from each of these schools? If you can be positive about these questions then you may stand a chance at appeal and/or on the waiting lists.


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 11, 2010 10:32 pm 
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Hi Tracy
Bexley said we can only put DD's name on a waiting lsit for one sch that was on her caf for bexley. However was told can contact Greenwich and tell them we want DD on the waiting list for as a many other schs that are either bexley and any other boroughs. I attend church regularly and DD christened i thought catholics are suppose to take a certain % of other faiths hence .......
Greenwich states if we are appealing against schs in other borough then we need to contact the borough responsible for those schs.
this may sound like i am looking for every reason to appeal. This is not the case. it is just that I want to go for an appeal (e.g. via ombudsman) fully prepared and that I have a good case. With regards to marking the 11+ exams, is it true that the dates of birth for the children are used to deduct mark for children who were born say sometime in September as opposed to those born in say Feb. And girls marked down because they they do better than boys is this the case? If so case, this would be an injustice which in a sense skewed my dd's result unfavourably and costing her to have one point off the cut off mark.
Moderators is it possible to move these threads to the appeals section pls.


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 11, 2010 11:12 pm 
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Location: Bexley
Imagine,

Your dd has not lost or gained anything as a result of the marking system.
Your dd will have only been compared to all the other children born in the same month as her. There's no adding or deducting of marks so she has not been treated unfairly. This is a myth that is always doing the rounds. :roll:

Grammars - appeal to Townley and BGS. Contact Bexley Council for details and they will send you all the info. Get as much academic evidence as possible. The Council should have automatically put you on a reserve list for places at all the of grammars you applied for. Check with Bexley to see whether this has been done. Don't hold your breath for a place this way!

Catholic schools, if your church attendance is at least fortnightly and your child has been baptised, then appeal. Just a thought, does your child go to church with you? How far away from St Cath's and St Ursula's are you?


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 12, 2010 1:02 am 
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[quote="imagine"] And girls marked down because they they do better than boys is this the case? quote]

Please don't worry that your DD lost out because of her gender. Girls are not marked down.


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 13, 2010 11:10 pm 
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Thanks Edsmum for moving this thread.

Thanks Tracy and bromleymum for explaining about the marking.

DD already a 5c in english and maths.

I checked with Bexley they said that dd name will have automatically been placed on the reserved list but as you said i was told the reserved list has not been applied for six years now so indeed i won't hold my breathe.

Church attendance ok dd attends church with me and also she has been baptised but forgot to mention we are not catholic we are Methodist. Though iwas told that catholics are meant to take a percentage of non catholics but not sure anymore. Distance from St Catherine is 2.3 miles and St Ursula's is 3.5 miles.

I am not sure where to begin with this appeal and will welcome any information. I am not sure, i feel as if i should have made a head start long ago. I have collected the forms but are due in on the 30th of march though will be sending them earlier than that. What other evidence will i need to help support this appeal? What are they looking for?


DD scored low on the maths and looking back when i picked her up after the test she was crying when i asked her she said that when they said 5mins to go she panicked as she still had 12 questions to go so my guess here is that she started rushing and arrived at the wrong answer she did say she completed it.
I have emailed bexley to request access to her answer sheet.


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 14, 2010 5:01 pm 
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Location: Bexley
Imagine,

Re the grammar appeal, if your dd was one mark away and didn't come close to finishing the paper that would suggest that she must have done very well on the questions she did answer. That's the good news.
Unfortunately there will be other kids in exactly the same boat and there are many that are upset when they come out of the 11+ exams. I think you should go ahead with the appeals although I really don't see a successful outcome here. 5Cs don't normally swing it but you never know.

St Caths - you are very close distance wise. Not being funny here but you did complete the supplementary form? Many parents forget to do this and therefore are shocked when they don't gain a place.

On the entry criteria, yes Catholics get priority, as they should, it is a Catholic school. I don't know if it's true about them having to take a proportion of non-Catholics. I have heard this many times and I would have thought it was true but it might just be the rumour mill. :roll:

The over-subscription criteria 2.5 says:

Girls who are Christians who are in membership of Churches Together in England or the Evangelical List....

Is your church in this category? This is the category from which the non-Catholics tend to gain places at St Cath's. You must find out if your church is included in this category to take an appeal any further.

I don't know what the criteria for St Ursula's is - sorry.


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 21, 2010 1:59 am 
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Hi Tracy
I have not logged on for a while. Thanks for the feedback. Yes about not finishing that's true there will be many in the same position.

i was surprise she did not get in for st caths yes i personally went and submit the supplementary form. I also checked and yes our church comes under the Membership of Churches Together.

St Ursula has the same criteria as St Caths.


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