Go to navigation
It is currently Wed Dec 07, 2016 12:37 pm

All times are UTC




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 31 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3, 4  Next
Author Message
PostPosted: Tue Apr 27, 2010 10:04 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sat Feb 21, 2009 2:09 pm
Posts: 276
Can anyone please help me?

I've read on this site that a high NV score in the CAT test indicates an aptitude for science, maths and engineering. I'd like to mention this in my son's appeal, but don't want to say it if it isn't true! I can't find anything on the NFeR website (the people who administer CATs I think). Can anyone point me in the right direction?

The appeal paperwork needs to be in in the next couple of days, so would be very grateful for any help ASAP.

Thank you
Cairo


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Apr 28, 2010 11:52 am 
I am sorry I can't point you in the right direction but I think there must be some truth in this.

My really high performers at non-verbal usually have parents who are engineers, computer programmers, architects, science lectures or similar.

My really poor performers often have parents who admit they can't see the patterns either but often have very good degrees in Arts subjects.

Hopefully someone will be along soon with the right advice.


Top
  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Apr 28, 2010 7:33 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue Mar 16, 2010 8:12 pm
Posts: 800
Location: Kent
What you are asking about has also been mentioned here:

viewtopic.php?t=14810

This suggests there is a link.........


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Apr 30, 2010 5:29 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sat Feb 21, 2009 2:09 pm
Posts: 276
Yes, I've seen that discussion thanks. What I'm trying to find though is evidence of the link - not just hearsay. Anyone else know anything about this? Any CAT specialists out there??


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue May 04, 2010 8:54 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed Aug 13, 2008 4:25 pm
Posts: 2610
Cairo when I asked for information from my son's head on his CAT scores I was given a table. The way it was set out and my sons corresponding scores led me to believe that Gloucestershire use the NVR score to give a predicted science SATs score. V.R equates to English score and QR to Maths. Have you got this information from your sons school. If not I will send you my sons table via p.m.

If your son has a high NVR score this might also be of some use


http://www.satsguide.co.uk/help__other_ ... _tests.htm


2. Is CAT a measure of innate ability? Are CAT results in any way affected by teaching?
There is no such thing as a measure of ‘innate ability’. The quality of prior teaching, opportunities to learn, parental support and pupils’ educational experience will undoubtedly affect pupils’ performance on all educational tests. However tests of the taught curriculum - reading, mathematics, spelling etc. - are likely to be influenced to a greater degree than reasoning tests. Attainment tests, such as National Curriculum tests, are designed to measure outcomes of specific learning and instruction, and the content is drawn directly from the taught curriculum. In contrast, reasoning tests tap a general set of prior experience by assessing the perception and manipulation of relationships and content that is not generally part of the taught curriculum. Non Verbal Reasoning (NVR) tests, with their relatively low language demands, are least likely to be influenced by the quality of teaching issues. This issue is dealt with in detail in Chapter 8 of “Getting the Best from CAT��? (Strand, 2003).

As Gloucestershire 11+ is totally V.R based I think certain very bright children are penalised by the system.

Good luck.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed May 05, 2010 1:21 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sat Feb 21, 2009 2:09 pm
Posts: 276
Tolstoy - No I haven't been given any table which might show a link between NVR and Science, so if you wouldn't mind p.m-ing me something I'd be very grateful.

DS1 scored 141, which I think is right at the top of the scale and I'd love to be able to say "this shows an aptitude for Science and your school has a specialism/reputation for Science, so please can he have a place?" But don't want to say it if it isn't true....

Thanks a lot,
Cairo

PS As you can see I did decide to appeal (because DS1 asked me to) - the things we do for our children, eh?


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed May 05, 2010 2:40 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed Jun 24, 2009 10:30 pm
Posts: 194
I am in exactly the same position as you Cairo although different area. I have been trying to find "evidence" too but understand that there are links but just trying to find them is proving elusive! Can any of the mods point us in the right direction?


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed May 05, 2010 3:26 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed Feb 27, 2008 8:59 am
Posts: 2001
I can't find anything as specific as you are asking but depending on your circumstances these may be of use.

http://www.testingforschools.com/help/CAT3-guidance.pdf

Quote:
Despite the lack of overlap with formal schooling, non-verbal reasoning tests have been found to relate significantly to school achievement, providing a useful addition to verbal tests. Among pupils with similar levels of verbal ability, the level of non-verbal ability may well identify those with the greater aptitude for the visual–spatial academic disciplines, such as mathematics, physics, art and design and technology. Tests of spatial ability are used in employment settings to identify those with aptitude for such careers as design, engineering and architecture.

The Non-Verbal Battery measures what has been termed ‘fluid intelligence’: that is, an ability to reason that is not strongly influenced by cultural and educational background.Where performance on this battery is superior to that on the other two batteries, it may suggest potential that is not fully expressed in performance on school-related tasks, for one reason or another. Scores on this battery may be particularly valuable in assessing the reasoning ability of pupils with poor English language skills, pupils with specific problems in language-based work, or disaffected pupils who may have failed to achieve in academic work for motivational reasons.


http://www2.warwick.ac.uk/fac/soc/cedar ... aper10.pdf

Quote:
While performance on the three CAT batteries is positively correlated, some individuals show a marked strength or weakness in reasoning in one or other of the three modalities. For example, 25 some students have an exceptional facility in thinking with words, but are relatively weak in the other areas. Equally other students may have a great facility with thinking in shape and space, or with number, but be relatively weaker in the verbal area. It is tempting therefore to consider a
highly able student as one who scores in the top 5% (SAS of 126 or above) on any one of the three tests. However while each separate battery identifies 5% of the population, the proportion who score 126 or above on any one of the three batteries is around 10% of the population.
Similar evidence has been provided by the CEM centre in an analysis of their MidYIS tests, where use of the three separate vocabulary, maths and non-verbal reasoning tests would raise the proportion to 9% (Lyth & Coe, 2005).


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed May 05, 2010 6:14 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sat Feb 21, 2009 2:09 pm
Posts: 276
Thanks Mitasol - very helpful.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu May 06, 2010 8:43 am 
Offline

Joined: Wed Jun 24, 2009 10:30 pm
Posts: 194
Yes very useful. I will explore this further too. Etienne do you think this is evidence that can be used without lecturing the panel members?


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 31 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3, 4  Next

All times are UTC


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 4 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
CALL 020 8204 5060
   
Privacy Policy | Refund Policy | Disclaimer | Copyright © 2004 – 2016