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 Post subject: out of area appeal
PostPosted: Sat Jun 19, 2010 9:05 pm 
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Hi wondered if someone could offer some advice.
We are appealing to a neighbouring authorties over subscribed foundation school.
Their points for admission are the usual children in care and named statements then ;living the LEA ,then feeder school, then sibling and then walkable route to school.
At present we stand next no chance of getting into school as some siblings have yet to be given a place.
We are appealing on medical grounds and bullying but have some points to ask.
The supporting letter from the GP out-lines the illness and bullying but doesn't name the school in question,and the primary school has sent a supporting letter stating friendship issues as they ahve refused to call it bullying..... which it is.
Will these points go against us?
Also on the LEA website it tells us that the school in question is over pan by approx 45 but never goes over the total PAN each year.I have taken this to be the 6th form students.Do they not have to class these in the PAN.
Is there anything any further we can do?
The hospital consultant she is under doesn't wish to get involved!
Are these weak circumstances?
Could I also ask,the people who are on the appealpanel, what are they told they can and cannot accept as reasons for winning an appeal,they surely must be given guidance?


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 Post subject: Re: out of area appeal
PostPosted: Sat Jun 19, 2010 10:10 pm 
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Posts: 7061
Quote:
The supporting letter from the GP out-lines the illness and bullying but doesn't name the school in question
I think you may have been looking at another thread about the exceptional medical/social criterion. That was where the argument is that the school being requested during the admissions process is the only one that could meet the child's needs. If this is said to be the only school that could cope with the problem, it would be odd in that situation for it not to be named in any evidence!
Quote:
the primary school has sent a supporting letter stating friendship issues as they ahve refused to call it bullying..... which it is.
Will these points go against us?
It would obviously have helped if the primary school were more forthcoming, but schools are often reluctant to admit that bullying goes on. Fortunately, an experienced appeals panel may well understand this.

Quote:
Also on the LEA website it tells us that the school in question is over pan by approx 45 but never goes over the total PAN each year.I have taken this to be the 6th form students.Do they not have to class these in the PAN.
Do you mean the total number on roll exceeds the net capacity (not the PAN) by approx. 45? That would make sense, and it might well have something to do with sixth form numbers. If the school accepts students for entry into the 6th form from other schools, there is a separate PAN for these students. I wouldn't worry too much about that as it will affect mainly communal areas (e.g. overcrowding in corridors). The number in the relevant year group is of much greater importance (and the numbers in each class in that year group).

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Could I also ask,the people who are on the appeal panel, what are they told they can and cannot accept as reasons for winning an appeal,they surely must be given guidance?
The guidance they get is in relation to the law. No one can tell them what reasons they can or cannot accept. It's much more a matter of judgement. They have to assess the strength of the parent's case and decide whether it is sufficient to outweigh any prejudice to the school.

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Etienne


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 Post subject: Re: out of area appeal
PostPosted: Sun Jun 20, 2010 9:06 am 
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Joined: Sat Jun 19, 2010 7:57 pm
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Dear Etienne,
our daughter has a kidney problem that has been worsened considerably by the bullying issues so it I suppose the two are linked together.This is the only school local to us where the girls who bullied her are not going.Would it be better in the eyes of the appeal to have it named by the GP?
I think you are correct about the PAN numbers,was just wondering if it ws a valid reason to bring up at the appeal.
many thanks


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 Post subject: Re: out of area appeal
PostPosted: Sun Jun 20, 2010 11:57 am 
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Posts: 7061
mommaof2 wrote:
our daughter has a kidney problem that has been worsened considerably by the bullying issues so it I suppose the two are linked together.This is the only school local to us where the girls who bullied her are not going.Would it be better in the eyes of the appeal to have it named by the GP?
I don't think the panel would be expecting the GP to name the school the bullies are not going to. That is what the primary school should be doing (even if they choose to describe the bullies as "children with whom there are friendship issues"!). All that can be reasonably asked of the GP is that he/she explains the health problems, and confirms that bullying makes them worse.
Quote:
I think you are correct about the PAN numbers,was just wondering if it ws a valid reason to bring up at the appeal.
It would quite normal for the school to mention the total number on roll as part of their case, especially as it's well above their net capacity, but they would need to explain why it's a problem, and why one more child would make things worse. It's unlikely to be a strong argument, though they may try claiming that overcrowded corridors etc. pose a health & safety problem. (I wonder just how many accidents they can prove have been the result of overcrowding in the school's communal areas? :))

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Etienne


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 Post subject: Re: out of area appeal
PostPosted: Sun Jun 20, 2010 12:24 pm 
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Joined: Sat Jun 19, 2010 7:57 pm
Posts: 8
many thanks for the swift reply! Its been a bapistism of fire asking for a " factual " statement from school so getting them to add a list of schools with the children in that had bullied her ..... well I know the answer before I ask it,if I dare ask it.
Would an experienced appeal understand this or a other schools more forthcoming.
At the moment successful appeals for this school last year where 0 the year before 1 and 2 before that!
I suppose it is all individual cases but dont all parents think that?


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 Post subject: Re: out of area appeal
PostPosted: Sun Jun 20, 2010 12:48 pm 
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It would be difficult for a school to write in any detail about other children, and the schools they are moving to, because of the Data Protection Act. However, I see no reason why they shouldn't write in general terms that unnamed "children with whom there have been friendship issues" are not known to be going to the school in question.

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 Post subject: Re: out of area appeal
PostPosted: Tue Jun 29, 2010 8:00 pm 
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Joined: Sat Jun 19, 2010 7:57 pm
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Hi we have our appeal on 01/07 - over subscription only.
Following advice ,threads and phone calls to ACE we have now obtained two letters from school- factual not supportive and 3 letters from the GP with two listing medical problems and one stating that they support the named school for forfilling our daughters need.
Just need to bullet point the case,so when I fall to pieces I have something to follow.
If I don't try I'll always wonder.......
Thanks for all advice given :roll:


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 Post subject: Re: out of area appeal
PostPosted: Wed Jun 30, 2010 5:18 am 
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Joined: Sat Jun 19, 2010 7:57 pm
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Does it matter that the school we are appealing to is ranked lower on our CAF as circumstances changed since Nov 09??


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 Post subject: Re: out of area appeal
PostPosted: Wed Jun 30, 2010 6:25 am 
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Joined: Mon Dec 12, 2005 5:26 pm
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The order on the CAF wouldn't normally be a matter for the panel, unless you wish to bring it to their attention as part of telling them about your changed circumstances.

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 Post subject: Re: out of area appeal
PostPosted: Tue Jul 06, 2010 8:03 pm 
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Joined: Sat Jun 19, 2010 7:57 pm
Posts: 8
:D :D :D :D appeal results are in and it was a YES!
Like one other poster said evidence , evidence , evidence!
Many thanks for the advice given.
Many times I could have given in - even after getting local comp form the waiting list but that came after all evidence had been sent in for the appeal - so what have I got to lose only the happiness of our daughter.
Never thought if would be a yes!
Will try to add on to all areas but looks tricky.


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