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PostPosted: Mon Jul 12, 2010 10:08 am 
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For some children there is genuine reason where the child has underperformed on the day and a grammar school place must be sought via appeal. But for others who go down the appeal route and perhaps win their appeal, I wonder if the child always ends up at the most suitable school and moreover if the needs of the child have been the main motivation?
It would be interesting for other comments!


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 12, 2010 10:57 am 
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Well an interesting question. I won an appeal for my daughter but it was an over-subscription appeal - i presume when you mention a child underperforming on the day you are referring to non-qualification appeals?

I have heard -( cant quote where as cant remembe)r :lol:- that appeal children on the whole acheive just as well at the grammar as those that qualified :)


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 12, 2010 11:34 am 
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tiredmum wrote:
Well an interesting question. I won an appeal for my daughter but it was an over-subscription appeal - i presume when you mention a child underperforming on the day you are referring to non-qualification appeals?

I have heard -( cant quote where as cant remembe)r :lol:- that appeal children on the whole acheive just as well at the grammar as those that qualified :)


Whereas those tutored-to-death who just scape in often struggle (and prejudice the education of the rest of the cohort).

84t's question is quite fundamental. What are Grammar Schools for? Are they there to fuel parental aspirations, to give an appropriate education to the genuinely bright child, to act as a cheap substitute for private education?

On the whole, I think appeals panels can spot the genuine cases. Not all will win their appeals, though, as it depends on the strength of the other appeals being heard. But 'because I would be very useful to the PTA as I've been chair of the primary school PTA and raised lots of money for them' isn't a reason to allow an appeal.

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 12, 2010 4:54 pm 
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Furthermore those who are tutored to within an inch of their lives distort the required pass marks for the other entrants because they achieve virtually full marks in the tests which naturally they wouldn't have. It is wonderful for some who can afford to support their child with tutoring throughout their education (it is afterall cheaper than paying for a private education) but for those, and I admit there are not an enormous number of these, who do enough to get the child in only to stop the extra support once they are there I actually feel sorry for the child and wonder who is getting the most from this selective education?!

In answer to your question.... An appeal is sometimes the only way, but does not always offer the correct answer. :?

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 12, 2010 5:02 pm 
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T12ACY wrote:
Furthermore those who are tutored to within an inch of their lives distort the required pass marks for the other entrants because they achieve virtually full marks in the tests which naturally they wouldn't have.


You have hit the nail on the head :D

And then you have to go into appeal and say why your child did not reach the required result, an impossible situaution for many, because actually they did perform well, just not well enough compared to those in the cohort sitting the test against whom their score is standardised.


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 12, 2010 5:07 pm 
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Of interest? :)
http://www.elevenplusexams.co.uk/11plus ... rs.php#b26

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 12, 2010 5:46 pm 
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Looking for help wrote:
T12ACY wrote:
Furthermore those who are tutored to within an inch of their lives distort the required pass marks for the other entrants because they achieve virtually full marks in the tests which naturally they wouldn't have.


You have hit the nail on the head :D

And then you have to go into appeal and say why your child did not reach the required result, an impossible situaution for many, because actually they did perform well, just not well enough compared to those in the cohort sitting the test against whom their score is standardised.


Here here! Imo it is all horrid and unfair and the appeals process only tinkers with the minutiae relating to a very few children; it does nothing to right the injustice which is endemic in the entire system. Some parents (us!) are not prepared to go through all that (we are very lucky to have a good alternative) and others will go to the ends of the earth and fight all the way [sometimes, it seems, on very dodgy 'evidence'] for what they consider their children's right. This is before we even think about the birth date weighting which loses marks for older children - something which happens in no other public exams in the country. Goodness knows who dreamt it all up, but I can't imagine they would get away with it now!


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 12, 2010 6:43 pm 
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And you see I too have very strong opinions on the birth date 'issue' so interesting to see that others feel the same!

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 12, 2010 6:48 pm 
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Quote:
loses marks for older children


Children don't lose marks in the standardisation process. Generally a similar proportion from each month pass. So children need to score highly in comparison with children born in the same month (or other grouping). Any difference in the score required indicates that older children do perform better than younger children.

I have DC at both end of the range so no bias. :D


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 12, 2010 7:06 pm 
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mitasol wrote:
Quote:
loses marks for older children


Children don't lose marks in the standardisation process. Generally a similar proportion from each month pass. So children need to score highly in comparison with children born in the same month (or other grouping). Any difference in the score required indicates that older children do perform better than younger children.

I have DC at both end of the range so no bias. :D


Yes, so do I; but as my October-born son missed our choice of GS by 1 mark, it is a moot point here. It is all well and good, but no adjustments are made in other public exams - for which a case could arguably be made.


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