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 Post subject: Advice needed...
PostPosted: Wed Oct 27, 2010 11:41 am 
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Joined: Sun Nov 16, 2008 1:23 pm
Posts: 42
Location: gloucestershire
Hi,
I really need some words of wisdom.

Briefly our situation:

DC2 recently failed grammar test (only vr multi choice x 2 papers in our area) by a large amount (in the teens)

DC2 very able already at level 5c sats in english and 4a maths so predictions look good for May.

School mock vr test scored really well

DS1 in GS already,DS2 brighter so I thought I had nothing to worry about. :shock:

Anyway I was advised in yr 5(by teacher) with DS1 that tuition was not a good thing as it could get the wrong kids in and as our finacial sitiuation isnt good I couldn`t get a tutor anyway.I worked from start of yr 6 with DS1 and it worked we got a pass.So looking at the above info you can see why I thought I could pull it off again using the same method.

I totally underestimated what the tutored kids can do.I spoke to a friend who explained how the sheer volume of tests some kids do gives them the advantage as they have seen so many of the q`s before and lots of papers are recyled helping with speed.My DC did less than 10 papers.

I am to blame for lack of prep. :oops:

What I would like to know is do you think I have a chance at appeal? There are no circumstances that occured on the day other than usual nerves and a desperate wish to join DS1.Teacher was shocked at result and said to appeal.We are very low income and the school has a high number of affluent children on roll, low number of low income and the neighbourhood radius of 3 miles has a higher number of low income than are in the school.(asking all this as I don`t know if thats relevant???)

Lastly we live near the school but in a very deprived area and there isn`t a good comp in walking distance.The nearest decent school is a half hour plus bus ride and we can`t afford the bus fare.

Looking at all of this can I put a decent case together where I would have at least a 25% chance? If our chance is very low it may not be worth all that stress.

Sorry for this being so long :oops: So many people keep telling me to appeal.After thinking we are too far out to stand a chance I am now so confused. Thanks


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 Post subject: Re: Advice needed...
PostPosted: Wed Oct 27, 2010 5:28 pm 
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Joined: Tue Dec 13, 2005 12:49 pm
Posts: 1647
Location: berkshire
Hi Shaann,

It would help if you could state what general area you are in......


sorry edited...I see you are in gloucs

With support from current school then it is always worth going to appeal. I believe their are 2 parts to appeal - qualification and then oversubscription.

You have to show evidence that the child is of sufficient standard to meet the criteria (even tho they have not done as well in the exam) and then why you need them to attend that particular school.

Hopefully someone with knowledge of appeals in your area will be able to help, as the process is not always the same.


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 Post subject: Re: Advice needed...
PostPosted: Wed Oct 27, 2010 5:35 pm 
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Joined: Sun Nov 16, 2008 1:23 pm
Posts: 42
Location: gloucestershire
I have read all the stuff at the top of this page incase anyone wondered.Lots of you have read my post but nobody has answered????Have I said something wrong??? :oops:

I just wanted old fashioned `help what do I do` advice.I don`t have to decide until march but I need my life back.Either we decide now to go for it and begin collecting paperwork or forget the whole thing and take what we are given in march.

A few opinions would really help pleeeeeeease.

Anyone won an appeal way off the pass mark with a similar situation ?


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 Post subject: Re: Advice needed...
PostPosted: Wed Oct 27, 2010 5:37 pm 
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Joined: Sun Nov 16, 2008 1:23 pm
Posts: 42
Location: gloucestershire
sorry it appaers I had a reply as I was typing, thanks


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 Post subject: Re: Advice needed...
PostPosted: Wed Oct 27, 2010 5:43 pm 
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Joined: Tue Dec 13, 2005 12:49 pm
Posts: 1647
Location: berkshire
Hi again Shaann...

As it is half term in many areas there may be a slight delay in replies ... they will be along soon. :)


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 Post subject: Re: Advice needed...
PostPosted: Wed Oct 27, 2010 6:15 pm 
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Joined: Wed Jan 11, 2006 7:10 pm
Posts: 8199
Location: Buckinghamshire
Hi shaan

shaann wrote:
Lots of you have read my post but nobody has answered????Have I said something wrong??? :oops:

There are things out there called "bots" (Googlebot, for example) that trawl for changes to web pages to update search engines and they will be a large part of the total views for your post. There will also be people who have read it but don't feel able to advise you, so they have not replied.

The point about the area you live in is not really going to be relevant for an appeal as far as I can tell from what you have written. Please don't beat yourself up over the amount of tutoring you did. Some of the kids who have been hot-housed in VR for months on end are really going to struggle when they get to a GS.

With a score that is some way off the qualifying mark the chances of success may be slim, but the one thing that is going to make the difference is academic evidence. You should try to gain the Head's support and keep in close touch with the teacher about your DS's progress between now and March.

Does your DS's school do any other tests, such as NFER, CATs or reading age tests? The results of those would be very useful for an appeal.

Sally-Anne


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 Post subject: Re: Advice needed...
PostPosted: Wed Oct 27, 2010 6:19 pm 
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Joined: Thu Sep 24, 2009 10:59 am
Posts: 5921
I think I am in your area Shaann (Gloucs?).

You are right in thinking that children here are tutored to the skies. We were in a similar position to you last year and did not tutor. DS did pass but not by enough to get the GS of our first choice (missed by 1 mark). The school also advised us to appeal; CATs were very high and SATs predictions (later turned to reality) also high 5s. We agonised but for many different reasons didn't appeal in the end. I got the impression from this forum that presenting a case saying 'DC wasn't tutored' would not wash, as they would only have your word for it and everyone would presumably say that. In our case we would have looked particularly daft for not tutoring as I am a teacher and ought to have known better: it came as a dreadful shock to me to realise the extent of what people were doing. I certainly know now! The 2 children who did get in from DS's primary were tutored from Year 2; I reckon an appeal panel would have assumed we must have done the same.

I think it depends which school you wanted. If it was Pate's, I'd say 'forget it'. I think unless something very tragic happened in your house the night before the exam you wouldn't stand a chance (and I hope it didn't :) ); but if it were Crypt/Ribston, then go for it, as they have been undersubscribed in recent years and children who didn't pass have been admitted. Capers123 is the best person to advise on local school appeals I think - I am sure he will dance along soon to offer advice - or maybe try the Gloucestershire forum.

You are not, by the way, 'to blame' - categorically. The system here sucks and children like yours pay the price for an overboiled coaching culture and a superselective system which admits only 5% to GS, some of those from a long way out of the area.


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 Post subject: Re: Advice needed...
PostPosted: Wed Oct 27, 2010 6:47 pm 
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Joined: Mon Dec 12, 2005 5:26 pm
Posts: 7059
It can take at least a day or two, shaann, to get responses. Even when there appear to be a lot of 'views', as Sally-Anne says, not everyone may feel qualified to answer your particular questions.

Quote:
What I would like to know is do you think I have a chance at appeal?
Very difficult to say. We give advice in the Q&As about the sort of arguments you might put forward at appeal, but it is important to understand that there are a number of factors that are completely outside of your control:

    1. Which school you are appealing for, and how strong a case it puts forward to resist further admissions.
    2. (Probably) how strong a case the other appellants' have.
    3. How strict the appeal panel is in exercising its judgement.

With regard to the last point, there are huge variations in different parts of the country, and own-admission authority schools tend to have stricter panels.

As Amber says, Pates would be very difficult.

Quote:
There are no circumstances that occured on the day other than usual nerves and a desperate wish to join DS1.
Sibling pressure is a possible argument. You need to think how you might persuade the panel that it's a genuine point. Were there any incidents in the lead-up to the tests?

I do think some appeal panels would sympathise with your circumstances (deprived area, no good alternative), but you need a strong academic case to start with.

Quote:
Looking at all of this can I put a decent case together where I would have at least a 25% chance? If our chance is very low it may not be worth all that stress.
Given very strong school support, I would have thought you could put a decent case together, but you would need to be realistic about your choice of school, and you have to remember that there can never be a guarantee of success (in fact, most appeals are not going to succeed).

_________________
Etienne


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 Post subject: Re: Advice needed...
PostPosted: Wed Oct 27, 2010 8:36 pm 
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Joined: Sun Nov 16, 2008 1:23 pm
Posts: 42
Location: gloucestershire
Thanks all. Sorry I was getting paranoid that there was nobody out there!! as if I didn`t have enough to think about.
Yes am in Glos and no am not after Pates.Glos seems to be strange system with all I can explain as a top ,middle and bottom gs school for getting into however there doesn`t seem to be a huge difference when they come out the other end :lol: I am after the end of the chain school so pos a better chance then.?

Feel a bit better now thanks.You know how it is with these things you can only go on about it so much to near and dear.This place gets it off your chest.I might just sleep tonight :lol:

And yes Amber its amazing what goes on in this sleepy county re the 11+.Unfortunately its all coming to light after the test.I could have done alot more and way before had I been more street wise :wink:


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 Post subject: Re: Advice needed...
PostPosted: Wed Oct 27, 2010 8:53 pm 
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Joined: Wed Sep 29, 2010 3:23 pm
Posts: 25
Hi Shaan, I sent you a private message :)


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