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 Post subject: Appeal query (Bucks)
PostPosted: Wed Dec 01, 2010 10:20 am 
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[size=85]Hi, this is my first visit to this forum, and it is reassuing to see I am not the only parent experiencing this angst! My daugheter has performed consistently well in all her practice papers, always within time, always in the 70's out of 80. In fact, we were all very positive and relaxed about the whole thing, or so I thought..
The first paper proved to be a very traumatic experience for her, she was so nervous she was sick, and I had a phone call from the school to come and collect her. My approach towards the next paper was to underplay..rather than make a big deal about it, but in hindsight perhaps I was wrong. She got 116, her lowest ever assessment score, and her school are very surprised. School friends who consistently scored 10 plus marks below her, all managed to pass, all the more adding to her utter dismay! I have visited the headmaster, and he indicated that not only did she score well in the CAT's, was predicted 5's for all her SAT's, but that the school also undergoes a student analysis of sorts, which based on various criteria including not just academic performance, but attitudes to work and degree of support required, arrived at her being deemed 'definitely suitable for grammar'. Apparently, this information based on individual outcomes on a scale of 1 to 5 is sent to the council prior to the tests taking place, That is the only information I have been supplied with, I see references from other posts to 1;1, 1;3 etc., but I have no idea what this means?? My question is, without the exonerating circumstance of a deceased cat or something similar the night before, does she have a chance of ever being successful on appeal?
And in the overall scheme of things, how pertinent is this student analysis and recommendation for grammar suitability?
Any replies gratefully recieved!


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 Post subject: Re: Appeal query
PostPosted: Wed Dec 01, 2010 11:01 am 
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i would just say read the Q&A's click on it at the top of the appeals forum. Scoll down and there is lots on bucks area. Tells you about the head teachers recommendation eg. 2:1 etc.
With 116 you will need very strong accedemic evidence to back your case and a strong recommendation from the head. The head told you your dd has good CATS results you will need to get them and find out what his remommendation was.
Someone will be along soon to advice on the circumstances. But read read read while you are waiting


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 Post subject: Re: Appeal query
PostPosted: Thu Dec 02, 2010 9:52 am 
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Thank you for the reply, the q&a section is a great help, so now understand the significance of the 1:1 notation. Based on this and from what the head has shown me, I would say she was classed a 2:1, she was deemed definitely suitable for grammar on the headteacher recommendation form, and her cat score averaged at 125, with 129 for VR. One notable point I did discuss with the head, was the fact that the last year has seen a huge leap in her development, confidence, maturity and results wise. She has always been a very quiet, sensitive and conscientious child, always commented on by teachers and her reports, but this led to a very unsettled phase at school, as she was constantly being ostracized by a couple of 'popular' individuals in her class, and culminated in my discovery of notes bearing the words 'LOSER' in her school bag, and a very disturbing MSN dialogue which bore nothing but the same word in increasing giant font size. (She was using msn for cousin contact in Australia, but I had to stop this as a result). Having put this behind us, she is now a very happy and settled member of her class, with a group of equally mature minded children amongst her closest friends. In tandem with this, her performance has soared. She went from bottom group of maths just over one year ago, and is now one of the more able students, in a class of high performers. Is all this relevant in any way? The fact that she has just recently started to blossom academically, would that be seen as a negative or a positive? And in relation to the appeal letter, do I mention this relatively recent growth, or purely mention her most recent scores with no reference to this at all? The head has indicated he will be sending a seperate report, so do I simply say refer to this, or should I summarise key points such as CAT scores, sat's etc on my letter also?
Apologies for all these questions, it feels a bit daunting knowing where to start..thanks v much


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 Post subject: Re: Appeal query
PostPosted: Thu Dec 02, 2010 11:25 am 
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ok i can tell you what i think but thats just from having experience on this site.

CATS - they look promising - it shows she perhaps should of performed better in the actual 11 plus but am not from your area.

Head teachers recommendation - that looks fantastic - but it will also be judged against what he gave the other children who took the test - ie. did all those he highly recommended for grammar pass? If so then his recommendation for your dc becomes stronger as he must be a good judge.

When you put your appeal together you will need a covering letter - or on the form itself and then appendix covering different things backing your case eg.
Appendix 1 - CATS scores from yr 5
Appendix 2 - SATS yr 5 results or yr 6 predictions if good.
Appendix 3 - head masters letter
Appendix 4 - evidence to show she suffered bullying or the upset on the test day etc

You get te idea, then in your letter and presentation you refer to these to put your case forward.

Personally would think that mentioning the recent accedemic growth is good as she is heading in the right direction after the upset with the bullies.


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 Post subject: Re: Appeal query
PostPosted: Thu Dec 02, 2010 11:17 pm 
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Thank you for taking the time to reply, I really appreciate it. Is it important to mention all those keys points in the covering letter? For example, if I just highlight the current academic indicators, drawing reference to HTR, and evidence of the upset on the day of the test, and leave it as simple as that, but elaborate on the reasons for her improvement and the circumstances prior to her more settled phase at the hearing..would that be an issue? Basically, does the letter need to cover all the points that are presented to the panel at the hearing, or is it ok to introduce additional aspects at that stage? I see references to EP reports, reading age etc., are SAT's, CAT scores and Head recommendations likely to be enough? The school she attends is a very high performing school in Bucks, consistently high in the KS2 league tables, so I guess that adds credence to the HTR..well I hope it does!
Thanks again for all your help


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 Post subject: Re: Appeal query
PostPosted: Thu Dec 02, 2010 11:29 pm 
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i would really like one of our experts to answer that - not confident to give you correct info - i know they have some sample appeals in the Q&A's - have you looked at how they are laid out?


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 Post subject: Re: Appeal query
PostPosted: Fri Dec 03, 2010 12:39 am 
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viewtopic.php?f=35&t=14207&p=169425&hilit=brief+submission+detail+presentation#p169425
(the above refers to oversubscription, but the principle is the same for non-qualification).

http://www.elevenplusexams.co.uk/11plus ... rs.php#e11
(example of a possible Bucks selection appeal submission)

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 03, 2010 9:26 am 
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Thank you so much for those great pointers, can I probe a bit further on this bit within the sample letter?
"VR scores of 126 (=96th percentile) in 2006, and 123 (=93rd percentile) in 2005 – please see Alternative Test Scores in the head teacher’s statement"

Where would those VR scores have come from? The HT briefly mentioned CAT scores, whereby the overall average was in the 121 to 130 range. Would the VR element of those scores be shown in the HTR that is sent to the panel, or would I have to request those from the HT myself?

Also, the letter makes reference to high grades contained in the last report...the YR5 school reports I have literally show SAT scores of 4 for English and Maths, (5's have been predicted for Maths, English & Science in YR 6) and then for general subjects, show that she has met all her targets..not exceeded them, but merely has met them. However, it is a very high performing school, so is this still ok to include?

Thank you so much for all this feedback..this site is a Godsend!


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 03, 2010 1:17 pm 
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mm23292 wrote:
can I probe a bit further on this bit within the sample letter?
"VR scores of 126 (=96th percentile) in 2006, and 123 (=93rd percentile) in 2005 – please see Alternative Test Scores in the head teacher’s statement"

Where would those VR scores have come from? The HT briefly mentioned CAT scores, whereby the overall average was in the 121 to 130 range. Would the VR element of those scores be shown in the HTR that is sent to the panel, or would I have to request those from the HT myself?
As far as I know, the headteacher summary sheet should be given to you, not sent directly to the panel, and it's your decision whether or not to submit it, so you should be able to see what the head has written. I would normally have expected him/her to give a breakdown of the CAT scores (VR, Q and NVR) in the summary sheet. If not, then you should ask the school because the VR is going to be of particular interest. The school will also have the percentiles, or you could look them up in the table at the end of B28:
http://www.elevenplusexams.co.uk/11plus ... rs.php#b28
Quote:
Also, the letter makes reference to high grades contained in the last report...the YR5 school reports I have literally show SAT scores of 4 for English and Maths, (5's have been predicted for Maths, English & Science in YR 6)
Level 4s for English and maths in year 5 are OK, although it would have helped if 4a/4b had been specified.
Quote:
and then for general subjects, show that she has met all her targets..not exceeded them, but merely has met them. However, it is a very high performing school, so is this still ok to include?
No easy answer, I'm afraid - it always looks better to have as many ticks as possible in the 'highest' column. You probably need to weigh up what the comments are like. For example, "works quickly," "grasps new concepts easily," "excellent progress" would be more helpful for an appeal than "very hardworking".

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 09, 2010 10:26 am 
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Hi all, When I spoke with the HT reagarding Appeal, he had a form with everyone's CAT scores compiled, going back to YR 3, for VR and Quantitative. My daughter's scores steadily improved over each year, with particular improvement in VR, particularly in YR 5. Reassured by the fact that they were going in the right direction, her VR has always been the stronger of the two, and the fact that her numeracy ability has been escalating at a great pace this past year or so..her Maths teacher told me at the last PTM about a month ago, that she is in the top ability range of pupils, and class weekly test sessions and YR5 SAT scores have refelected this.
So I was somewhat shocked to finally receive the HTR for the appeal submission. It shows only results for CAT tests taken in Jan 2010, and again in Sept 2010, just prior to the 11+. The VR's are good, but the Quantitative score, bizarrely drops 15 points to 95!! She has never ever scored this low, so I am totally confused, and a little dismayed if I'm honest, because her numeracy progress was something I had been planning to highlight. My question is, can these scores be verified in any way? My daughter can't even recall doing the Quantitative test in Sept, she can recall the VR. And just to fuel my cynicism even more, there are two pupils in her class with the exact same name, so I have even been barking up that tree in the dead of night! So to allay my fears, does anyone know what the log on procedure to take the CAT tests is? My daugheter says the two names are together, she selects the top one routinely, ..can't recall any other indicator like DOB or anything..is that correct? Please help me put this doubt to rest, I feel I need to eliminate those possibilities, before I can begin to accept that perhaps she just didn't do her best that day! Thanks all


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