Go to navigation
It is currently Sat Dec 10, 2016 8:29 pm

All times are UTC




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 17 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next
Author Message
PostPosted: Mon Dec 06, 2010 3:35 pm 
Offline

Joined: Mon Dec 06, 2010 1:42 pm
Posts: 9
Ok, here goes, apologies for the brain dump!

DD scored 119 and 115 in the recent Bucks 11+ test. DD is desperately upset, she has set her heart on a school. :(

Sats in year 5 report were
Literacy - Reading 5, Writing 5
Numeracy 4B
Science 4C

As it is an independent school no Sats are done or forecast for Year 6. Yr 5 school reports are graded for achievement and effort, all subjects show good achievement, excellent for English and good effort for all subjects.

DD got the Maths Challenge gold medal in Year 5, Silver medal in Year 6, is in gifted and talented for ICT.

We went to see the head who has only given a recommendation of 3:2, this is despite the Year 5 teacher, and old head (they changed this year) saying she should get through. The new head has said she will support our appeal and do what she can. I may be being unfair, but until we see the report I am not entirely sure how strong that support will be .

This 3:2 may be a reflection of Year 5 tests sat in Sept 09, I am not sure how to interpret them (if I am right they don't look that good for VR &NVR) but was told

Maths 102, English 127, NV 109, V 105, Reading 105, Spelling 131, Reading age 12yo, spelling 10yo.

Year 6 only tested Reading 117, Spelling 128, and no VR or NVR tests were performed at the start of year 6.

The Y5 tests were performed at the start of the year and until Y4 DD had a problem with another girl, who left at the end of Y4. DD flourished in Y5 and I feel the results of the tests at the start of Y5 were not a true indication of her ability.

Can anyone give me an indication as to how to interpret the above results, how they can best be presented and whether it is worthwhile appealingwith a 3:2 recomendation? No real extenuating circumstances other than nerves and pressure, but I guess that applies to all.

I will stop rambling and thanks you all in advance for any input/help.

Jacket


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Dec 06, 2010 4:21 pm 
Offline

Joined: Mon Dec 12, 2005 5:26 pm
Posts: 7064
Hello, jacket1

Panel members do like to see a 1 or a 2, but 3:2 doesn't necessarily rule out an appeal because they will usually look to see what the headteacher's overall recommendations are like in relation to pupils qualifying. If a school has been too generous, then their recommendations risk being viewed as somewhat 'devalued' at an appeal. Conversely, if the head has been rather strict, then the status of a 3 could rise!

However, I think the main problem you have would be those year 5 reasoning test scores.

Panels tend to like to see some evidence of really good reasoning ability on the basis that the 11+ is not a curriculum test, it is a test of reasoning ability.

If the school is not prepared to administer any reasoning tests in year 6, you might wish to consider getting an educational psychologist's report (which will include an assessment of verbal and perceptual reasoning). No guarantee, of course, that you would get the results you want, especially when one might have expected the problems you mention in year 5 to have impacted much more on the curriculum than on reasoning ability.

Having said that, the 11+ result shows a big improvement on year 5, and, with a score as good as 119, I do feel you should go ahead with an appeal and see what the panel think.

_________________
Etienne


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Dec 07, 2010 5:26 pm 
Offline

Joined: Mon Dec 06, 2010 1:42 pm
Posts: 9
Hi Etienne

Thank you for your input. As yet we still have not received the Heads report, we have been told we will have it on Thurs/Friday, so not much time left after that to discuss it.

I have sent some background info to the appeals box and would appreciate it if you or Sally-Anne could let me know your thoughts. In your experience are my concerns unfounded and am I over reacting to the miss/non communication in Y5, or should I bring this up in some way? While not affecting the academic ability, does it question the heads recommendation?

Once again, thanks for your invaluable site and help.

Jacket1


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Dec 07, 2010 6:42 pm 
Offline

Joined: Mon Dec 12, 2005 5:26 pm
Posts: 7064
Your message safely received jacket1. Thank you for your very kind comments.

Will reply a little later.

_________________
Etienne


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Dec 07, 2010 8:09 pm 
Offline

Joined: Mon Dec 12, 2005 5:26 pm
Posts: 7064
Quote:
not much time left after that to discuss it
If you need more time, it should be possible to send the summary sheet in later. Unless I'm mistaken, there used to be a space on the appeal form where you were asked to tick whether the summary sheet was enclosed, or whether it would be forwarded in due course.
Quote:
In your experience are my concerns unfounded
No, it does happen (as does the other extreme).

Quote:
and am I over reacting to the miss/non communication in Y5, or should I bring this up in some way?
If there have been problems, you should tell the panel verbally (better than making it part of your written submission), and preferably during the question & answer session.

Quote:
While not affecting the academic ability, does it question the heads recommendation?
Possibly, but leave it to the panel to draw any conclusions. It's better for you to be as factual as possible in describing any problems you've encountered (a puzzled rather than a critical parent!).

_________________
Etienne


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Dec 08, 2010 10:23 am 
Offline

Joined: Mon Dec 06, 2010 1:42 pm
Posts: 9
Hi Etienne

You have dissected my problem perfectly and helped clarify my thought processes, you are right "we are puzzled parents". Thank you so much.

Quote:
Unless I'm mistaken, there used to be a space on the appeal form where you were asked to tick whether the summary sheet was enclosed, or whether it would be forwarded in due course.
The boxes say, "I have included the heads teacher's summary sheet" and "I do not intend to include the head teacher's summary sheet", so we will have to see when we get it tomorrow/Friday. The booklet says your appeal will not be processed unless you have ticked one of these boxes

Going through old paperwork for the appeal, we came across results of assessment tests performed in Jan 10 giving a standardised score of 125 and again in July 10 giving a standardised score of 131. These tests were performed as part of our decision making process as to what we were going to do and unfortunately I don't think they would add any weight to the appeal.

Naturally we are now even more puzzled by the Y5 results and the heads comments and recommendation. Therefore in order to settle our own minds, and make sure we are not wearing rose tinted glasses regarding our DD ability, we are exploring the possibility of the educational psychologist's report.

If, and I realise it is an if, the report agrees to good reasoning skills and ability how much weight would this hold against the schools recommendation etc.?

Are there any particular tests we should ask for?

Would you be able to recommend anyone and give us a rough idea of cost?


As ever thank you very much for your help and advice.

Jacket1


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Dec 08, 2010 1:30 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed Jan 11, 2006 7:10 pm
Posts: 8208
Location: Buckinghamshire
Etienne wrote:
If you need more time, it should be possible to send the summary sheet in later. Unless I'm mistaken, there used to be a space on the appeal form where you were asked to tick whether the summary sheet was enclosed, or whether it would be forwarded in due course.
Unfortunately that is no longer the case. The wording on the form is:

Quote:
Step 5 Tell us about the Headteacher’s summary sheet

YOUR APPEAL WILL NOT BE PROCESSED UNLESS ONE OF THESE BOXES IS TICKED

I have included the Headteacher’s summary sheet

I do not intend to include the Headteacher’s summary sheet

I think a possible approach for someone who is still in discussions with a Head would be to ask for the form to be completed succinctly and ask for a further supporting letter to amplify the original form once there is less time pressure.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Dec 08, 2010 2:29 pm 
Offline

Joined: Mon Dec 12, 2005 5:26 pm
Posts: 7064
Looking at the wording, I think it's unchanged - it's just that my memory was fading with the passage of time! :oops:

Quote:
If, and I realise it is an if, the report agrees to good reasoning skills and ability how much weight would this hold against the schools recommendation etc.?
My experience of panels was that it helps them to have as much relevant evidence as possible.
In terms of the decision, there is no guarantee, of course, and it depends what view your particular panel takes of the evidence - but they will certainly consider it.
It would be worth explaining that, as 'puzzled parents', you felt it necessary to seek another opinion

Quote:
Would you be able to recommend anyone and give us a rough idea of cost?
Very roughly, the cost might be in the region of £500. I can't recommend anyone in particular, but there's a link here which will help trace the nearest chartered educational psychologists:
http://www.elevenplusexams.co.uk/appeal ... ication#b3
The wording of B3 is very cautious because we do not set out actively to 'promote' EP reports, but we do recognise that some parents feel they have no alternative either (a) because they have insufficient evidence of high ability from the school, or (b) because there may be an underlying problem, such as dyslexia, that has not been properly diagnosed.
Quote:
Are there any particular tests we should ask for?
An EP will probably ask what your concerns are, so you can explain that you're interested in an assessment of reasoning ability. However, most EPs will want to administer a battery of tests - either WISC-IV or BAS (British Ability Scales) - which, in addition to verbal comprehension and perceptual reasoning, test processing speed and working memory.

Here is a summary of what the WISC (Weschler) processing speed and working memory tests consist of:

    WISC IV Working Memory Subtests

    Digit Span measures auditory short-term memory, sequencing skills, attention, and concentration. The Digit Span Forward task requires the child to repeat numbers in the same order as read aloud by the examiner. Digit Span Backward requires the child to repeat the numbers in the reverse order of that presented by the examiner.

    Letter-Number Sequencing measures sequencing, mental manipulation, attention, short-term auditory memory, visuospatial imaging, and processing speed. It requires the child to read a sequence of letters and numbers and recall the numbers in ascending order and the letters in alphabetical order.

    Arithmetic measures mental manipulation, concentration, attention, short- and long-term memory, numerical reasoning ability, and mental alertness. It requires the child to mentally solve a series of orally presented arithmetic problems within a specified time limit.

    WISC IV Processing Speed Subtests

    Coding measures the child's short-term memory, learning ability, visual perception, visual-motor coordination, visual scanning ability, cognitive flexibility, attention, and motivation. It requires the child to copy symbols that are paired with simple geometric shapes or numbers.

    Symbol Search measures processing speed, short-term visual memory, visual-motor coordination, cognitive flexibility, visual discrimination, and concentration. This test requires the child to scan a search group and indicate whether the target symbol(s) matches any of the symbols in the search group within a specified time limit.

    Cancellation measures processing speed, visual selective attention, vigilance, and visual neglect. It requires the child to scan both a random and structured arrangement of pictures and mark target pictures within a specified time limit.

_________________
Etienne


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Dec 09, 2010 11:20 am 
Offline

Joined: Mon Dec 06, 2010 1:42 pm
Posts: 9
Just received the Heads report, and it has the wrong SATS grades on it for Y5, they don't forecast Y6.

I have queried this, but the Head says that the results agree with the slip of paper she she has in front of her. I offered to e-mail last years report and results slip to her, she declined and said she would investigate.

Either we have been given the wrong results slip and report in Y5, or when collating the results the wrong SATS results were logged against our DD.

How can I check the VR and NVR scores she has recorded for our DD are actually our DD's and not someone elses? We were told in Y5 that her results were in the top 15-20%, we were told last week she was around the middle.

No wonder we are puzzled, I think the schools internal results list has someone elses results against our DD.

If the Head based her recomendations on the SATS results infront of her, that might explain her 3:2 recommedation and our puzzlement at it.

Can I insist on seeing our DD nfer VR and NVR paper taken in Sept 09?
Should the schools have kept them or are they done online etc?
Surely this casts doubt upon both the recomendation od 3:2 and the VR score of 105 and NVR of 109?

Narrative report is good, and accuratley reflects our DD.

Will the school own up to an admin error, Help, how do I approach this?

Jacket1


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Dec 09, 2010 11:58 am 
Offline

Joined: Sun Nov 01, 2009 1:51 am
Posts: 1161
oh dear - take a look at the latest entry in this post- from today also

viewtopic.php?f=35&t=17894


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 17 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next

All times are UTC


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 6 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
CALL 020 8204 5060
   
Privacy Policy | Refund Policy | Disclaimer | Copyright © 2004 – 2016