Go to navigation
It is currently Sun Dec 04, 2016 8:09 am

All times are UTC




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 11 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next
Author Message
PostPosted: Wed Jan 05, 2011 6:02 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed Jan 05, 2011 5:35 pm
Posts: 3
Our Daughter took the 11+test for Grammar School entrance in September 2011 and we received the results in November. Her test scores were 117 and 120 with a final VR score of 120.
She was let down by poor adminstration on the day of the first test which casued her a great deal of upset for 20 minutes immediately before the test. We know this is the sole reason for her failing by 1 mark.
We are appealing with full support of her Head Teacher but are not sure what to say if the appeal board ask if she was tutored.
We know children aren't meant to be tutored but places for Grammar Schools are in such demand that everyone around here tutors their children and we thought that if we didn't get some tutoring then she'd be at a disadvantage to every other child taking the tests.
Her mental maths and vocabulary are both excellent and she is predicted level 5 in her year 6 Sats.
She was tutored a little but really just to learn the techniques then we made her revise them at home. But in such a deserving child we don't want to answer 'yes' if they do ask us this, and then have it count agaist us.
It makes you think what would the County Council do if they asked all the children who did achieve 121 if they were tutored.
Any advice would be greatly appreciated.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Jan 05, 2011 6:37 pm 
Offline

Joined: Mon Dec 12, 2005 5:26 pm
Posts: 7059
While I wouldn't advise going out of your way to volunteer the information -
if asked, you should tell the truth. I don't believe it would count against you if you explain in the very reasonable way you've done above ("She was tutored a little but really just to learn the techniques, then we made her revise them at home. We know children aren't meant to be tutored but all the parents where we live seem to have their children tutored, and we thought that if we didn't get some tutoring she'd be at a disadvantage.")

_________________
Etienne


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Jan 05, 2011 8:09 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sun Nov 28, 2010 6:35 pm
Posts: 58
Etienne would you mind expanding a little- this question seems to be asked at the majority of appeals so I guess we must all plan for it. You both comment here that the children are "not supposed to be tutored" where does this come from? I can see that one does not want to volunteer hot-housing, but I was not aware that there was a rule or recommendation that they are not tutored- it might affect how I answer (!)

many thanks

RRR


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Jan 05, 2011 8:58 pm 
Offline

Joined: Mon Dec 12, 2005 5:26 pm
Posts: 7059
We need to distinguish between the LA and the IAP (appeal panel).

Bucks LA policy has been that the familiarisation and official practice papers are sufficient preparation, and they do not allow their own primary schools to provide extra practice. They are of course fully aware that parents may opt for private tuition out of school - they may not approve of it, but it's outside their control.

These are not matters for the IAP.

I think the concern is that, if you tell an IAP "My child was tutored," they might possibly think to themselves "Despite all that tutoring, your child still didn't qualify?"

I doubt whether this question is in fact asked at the majority of appeals - because it's not a very good question. Assuming that the ideal answer is "No," how is a panel to know whether that is true? How can anyone prove a negative?

We get the occasional report that a panel has inquired about tutoring.

Some panels appear to be asking a more general question ("How did you prepare your child for the 11+?"), to which the answer in many cases might be "We just worked through some papers at home."

_________________
Etienne


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Jan 13, 2011 2:00 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sun Nov 28, 2010 6:35 pm
Posts: 58
Hi mumonline

I had a chat with a current appeal panel member yesterday on the topic. Her view was that there is relatively little point in panels asking the question as they will not neccessarily get a truthful anwer and it is therefore hard to rely on the answers- at minimum most parents underplay the tutoring-having said that, we obviously have no control over what they ask and they do seem to be asking it this year- and sometimes probing quite hard on the subject (feedback from a friend). Thus my panel member siad to be as honest as you can, downplay if you feel able, and try not to get bogged down in it.

I think I have thought about possible answers so much that I will look guilty almost whatever I say!

good luck

RRR


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Jan 13, 2011 5:45 pm 
Offline

Joined: Mon Dec 12, 2005 5:26 pm
Posts: 7059
Quote:
Her view was that there is relatively little point in panels asking the question as they will not necessarily get a truthful answer
Precisely!

I too wish they wouldn't ask this question - there is no proof for a negative!

_________________
Etienne


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Jan 13, 2011 6:33 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed Jan 05, 2011 5:35 pm
Posts: 3
We had our appeal on Tuesday and the tutoring question didn't even come up. We were asked how our daughter prepared for the test though, which is different. It was a very formal experience so be prepared.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Jan 14, 2011 1:40 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sun May 13, 2007 8:03 pm
Posts: 1827
Location: Gloucestershire
Etienne wrote:
I think the concern is that, if you tell an IAP "My child was tutored," they might possibly think to themselves "Despite all that tutoring, your child still didn't qualify?"

There certainly have been a couple of times that I've thought that in the past.

Quote:
I doubt whether this question is in fact asked at the majority of appeals - because it's not a very good question. Assuming that the ideal answer is "No," how is a panel to know whether that is true? How can anyone prove a negative?

Some parents do not tell the truth. I know this from 'local knowledge' - where in an appeal the parent said their child had no tutoring. We allowed the appeal. In the playground I heard from a friend who said they'd heard that the appeal had been won (she was a friend of the parents - they were from another school), and she was rather surprised as the child had been very intensively tutored by a local woman known to push the children like crazy to get them through. I didn't comment on it but was privately annoyed that the parent had lied to us. They might have won the appeal anyway, but it's not nice.

We also hear from parents who say their children had no prep for the appeal, yet attend a private school who start doing practice in VR & NVR in year 3 and one year advertised that they had 100% success in grammar school entrance tests!

Hence it's not a very useful question for a panel to ask, as you'd have to more or less ignore the answer - it's not a quantifiable piece of evidence.

_________________
Capers


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Jan 14, 2011 10:16 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed Jan 05, 2011 5:35 pm
Posts: 3
Thank you for the advice we received on this forum. I will recomend this sight to people still going through it.
We heard today that our appeal was sucessful and we are very relieved.
If we can help anyone with any questions regarding the process please get in touch.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Mar 06, 2011 8:25 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sun Jan 10, 2010 9:37 am
Posts: 8
Quote:
I think the concern is that, if you tell an IAP "My child was tutored," they might possibly think to themselves "Despite all that tutoring, your child still didn't qualify?"

I doubt whether this question is in fact asked at the majority of appeals - because it's not a very good question. Assuming that the ideal answer is "No," how is a panel to know whether that is true? How can anyone prove a negative?

We get the occasional report that a panel has inquired about tutoring.

Some panels appear to be asking a more general question ("How did you prepare your child for the 11+?"), to which the answer in many cases might be "We just worked through some papers at home."


Etienne
I have sent you a message to the mailbox (from Highschool). What if I say that we did try tutoring .... but it didn't help?


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 11 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next

All times are UTC


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 3 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
CALL 020 8204 5060
   
Privacy Policy | Refund Policy | Disclaimer | Copyright © 2004 – 2016