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PostPosted: Fri Mar 04, 2011 11:11 pm 
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Joined: Tue Nov 30, 2010 7:02 pm
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Dear Sally Anne and Etienne

HI!
SCORE ACHEIVED AND PRESENT CUT OFF:
My ds secured an average score of 113 for Langley Grammar and present cut off is 118. :(

LETTER FROM LANGLEY GRAMMAR:
We have received a letter from the school stating that since the school is oversubscribed for this year all students securing 117 and 111 have been placed on a waiting list which will continue until December.
The letter also states that since we haven't been allocated a place in the first round we have the right to appeal which will take place at the sports centre in the school and the appeal panel will consist of three members as per the current legislation.

My ds worked very hard for this exam and he is going through a mental trauma of getting so close and losing! Also his best friend secured a place at the school with a score of 119 and he couldn't! Anyways we are so proud of our ds for getting such a good score! Some win some lose!

TWO QUESTIONS:
If we appeal and our appeal is unsuccessful will that affect our position on the waiting list? Secondly we live about 10 miles away from the school so we are not in the catchment area of the school. I have also been informed that the school is having two waiting lists one for the catchment students and the other for non catchment students. How can a school have such waiting lists when its a non catchment school?

I was also wondering what documents do I need to submit for an over-subscription appeal? Do I need proof of ds's academic abilities?

Sorry for such a long message!

Your advice would really be helpful and beneficial at this crucial stage

Thanks and Best wishes
veryworriedmum


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 05, 2011 4:24 pm 
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Quote:
If we appeal and our appeal is unsuccessful will that affect our position on the waiting list?
No, the two things are entirely separate.

Quote:
Secondly we live about 10 miles away from the school so we are not in the catchment area of the school. I have also been informed that the school is having two waiting lists one for the catchment students and the other for non catchment students. How can a school have such waiting lists when its a non catchment school?
Informed by whom? If true, I don't see how it could be lawful -
Quote:
Each admission authority must maintain a waiting list for at least one term in the academic year of admission, for every oversubscribed school, and it must include the fact it will do this in their school’s published admission arrangements, making clear that children will be ranked in the same order as the published oversubscription criteria.


Quote:
I was also wondering what documents do I need to submit for an over-subscription appeal?
It depends on what arguments you are putting forward. For example, if part of your case were to be that he excels at maths, and that this is one of the school's strengths, then you would need as much evidence as possible of his ability in this area.
Examples of reasons commonly given at an oversubscription appeal can be found in the Q&As.

Quote:
Do I need proof of ds's academic abilities?
Normally for an oversubscription appeal, you don't need to prove overall academic ability. However, if score was the criterion for entry, and he qualified but was expected to score even more highly than he did, then you might wish to include evidence to back this up.

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Etienne


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 05, 2011 9:05 pm 
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Dear Etienne

Thank you ever so much for your reply! That's really appreciated. We have decided that we will go ahead with our over subscription appeal for Langley Grammar.

Our son is very good at maths and this grammar has a specialisation in Maths. He is currently on level 5c for numeracy on the national curriculum. Also our son has been doing abacus regularly for over 2 years now. In case if you don't know abacus is a mental maths technique through which children work at very high
Speed doing Mental calculations based on the four mathematical operations. The abacus techniques consists of 12 levels and our son is presently on level 7. He
Has won a trophy for securing third place at the National Abacus and mental Arithmetic competition held in India last year. Do you think this would be a good evidence in addition to the school report?
School report states his reading level and writing level as 4b and also predicts
level 5 for sats. Do you think we need to attach the head teacher's report as well?

Also another important fact worth mentioning might be his medical treatment. Just before a day of the exam he started vomiting at midnight and had to be admitted to the a & e dept of the local hospital where he was treated and recovered within a couple of hours and was sent home early morning. He was
Fine on the day of the exam but when he came home he was totally exhausted. I think we can get written evidence from the local hospital. Do you think that's a good idea?
Do we have a strong case?


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 05, 2011 9:26 pm 
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Joined: Mon Oct 19, 2009 4:29 pm
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Location: East Kent
If he was in A&E you can usually get a form that states you were there and between which times......we usually hand them out to people who should have been in court!!!!! these are usually given out whilst you are still there.
My advice is to contact them ASAP as notes get lost, and depending on which system they use on the computer they might not be able to pull up attendance and discharge times.

Best of luck with your appeal


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 05, 2011 9:32 pm 
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Quote:
Do you think this would be a good evidence in addition to the school report?
Yes.

Quote:
Do you think we need to attach the head teacher's report as well?
It depends what it says! The focus needs to be on a very high ability (such that he was expected to score even more highly than he did).

Quote:
Just before a day of the exam he started vomiting at midnight and had to be admitted to the a & e dept of the local hospital where he was treated and recovered within a couple of hours and was sent home early morning. He was
Fine on the day of the exam but when he came home he was totally exhausted. I think we can get written evidence from the local hospital. Do you think that's a good idea?
Yes, but the problem is you took the decision that he was well enough to take the test, and appeal panels tend not to like subsequent claims that the child wasn't really fit. Don't build it up as a strong point - safer to play it down, and just express regret that he was more tired than you realised.

Quote:
Do we have a strong case?
You certainly have a case, but only your particular appeal panel can say whether it's strong enough. They will have various factors to consider, including probably the strength of other appellants' cases.

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Etienne


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 05, 2011 11:26 pm 
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Dear Etienne,

Thank you once again for your help! Langley Grammar is a Maths and Computing specialist school. We were wondering how would we answer the panel if they ask us : 'Why do you need a place at this particular Grammar school?' Our LA has offered a place at Slough Grammar School which is further down about half a mile away from Langley Grammar. Slough Grammar was our fourth choice on CAF.

Thanks once again for all your help and support at this crucial stage!
veryworriedmum


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 06, 2011 2:22 pm 
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"Need" is perhaps too strong a word - it would be better to talk about "wanting or needing a place".

If your son excels at maths, and this is the school's specialism, and if the school is your nearest grammar school (and perhaps your first preference), you have a case for wanting a place! Whether it's a strong enough case, only time will tell.

By the way, how would your son answer the question "Why do you want to go to this school?"

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Etienne


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 06, 2011 7:46 pm 
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Dear Etienne,

Thank you once again! I got most of my answers, when I asked my son! He also mentioned the fact that he was nervous thinking about his Grand dad [ my father]. Some background info here again! During last summer my parents visited UK on visitors visa from our home country and stayed with us for a couple of months [July-Sept] He developed a special relationship with his grand dad during their stay here. Both of my parents stay on their own in our home country. On their arrival back home my father's health problem agriviated. He is heart patient and has a heart enlargement! He was on continous medication for a couple of months and my son was missing him a lot! This might be one of the reasons which led to a score of 113. He could have performed even better otherwise. Do you think it would be a good idea to add these reasons in our appeal?

We have also decided to go ahead with over subscription appeal for our first choice Tiffin Grammar School for boys. But the letter from this school suggests that there is a very low appeal success rate! No harm in trying anyways!

Tiffin Grammar School for boys present cut off and score: The present cut off mark is 228 and our son secured 223 :(

Appeal: Over subscription appeal.

Reasons:
1] Our son was very anxious during the night before the exam and he couldn't sleep the entire night! This affected his focus and concentration and he could have performed even better.
2] In addition to the above our son's acheivements current school report stating his levels.
3] His Certificate and Trophy of Acheivement in Abacus.

We are in the process of obtaining head teachers report which might take some time. Do you think we can sent our appeal without the head teachers report initially?

Thank you once again for all your help and support! Don't know what we could have done without you!
Best Wishes
veryworriedmum


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 06, 2011 8:00 pm 
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Joined: Mon Dec 12, 2005 5:26 pm
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veryworriedmum wrote:
Thank you once again! I got most of my answers, when I asked my son!
But did he offer any reasons for wanting a place at this school?

Quote:
This might be one of the reasons which led to a score of 113. He could have performed even better otherwise. Do you think it would be a good idea to add these reasons in our appeal?
Not sure about this. Is there any evidence that his school work deteriorated in the early part of the autumn term? It might be difficult to argue that 11+ performance was affected, but nothing else.

Quote:
Do you think we can sent our appeal without the head teachers report initially?
Yes, you can write "further evidence to follow".

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Etienne


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 06, 2011 11:12 pm 
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Dear Etienne,

Thank you ever so much for those prompt responses!

Our son did say that he wants to go to Langley Grammar since its a Maths specialist school and he aspires to specialize in Maths. He loves Maths because he likes playing with numbers and do speedy calculations! He also wanted to accompany his best friend who has been allocated a place at this school.

Yes there is the autumn term school report given from the school which states Numeracy level as 4b whereas the current Numeracy level is 5c and the Writing level which was 4c and now its 4b. Reading level is the same.

Our son is very fortunate to have an excellent class teacher who is very approachable and helpful and supportive! Unfortunately the head teacher is not that approachable and not supportive of Grammar Schools. Is the head teacher's report very crucial for an over subscription appeal? We are trying our very best to obtain it from the head but not 100 percent sure she would help! What would be the best thing to do?

Thanks once again
veryworriedmum


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