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PostPosted: Wed Apr 06, 2011 9:13 pm 
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Are the appeal panel members local to the area, or are they a group who do appeals over a wide area? I was wondering if they would know about the alternative local schools or not, which presumably they would if they are local.
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 Post subject: Re: Who is on the panel?
PostPosted: Wed Apr 06, 2011 9:59 pm 
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Advertising for panel members tends to be local:
Quote:
1.12 Admission authorities (or a body acting on their behalf e.g. if the local authority manages the area’s appeals process) must advertise for lay members every three years. Admission authorities must place an advertisement in at least one local newspaper and allow a minimum of twenty-one days for reply. Admission authorities may also use other ways of attracting potential members, for example by issuing flyers in local newspapers or to local companies and community centres, and advertising on the internet, making clear that training will be provided.

The Code of Practice also states:
Quote:
1.4 Admission authorities must ensure that every appeal hearing consists of:
a) at least one lay member. Lay members are people without personal experience in the management or provision of education in any school (though it is permissible to use people who have experience as governors of other schools, or who have been involved in education in any other voluntary capacity); and
b) at least one person with experience in education, who is acquainted with educational conditions in the area, or who is the parent of a registered pupil at a school.

I would have thought the majority of panel members are likely to be locally based, or to have become familiar with local conditions through hearing previous appeals. However, some admission authority areas can be very large, in which case not every single panel member will necessarily be familiar with all of the schools, although it's quite likely that someone on the panel will be.

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 06, 2011 10:07 pm 
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Do schools hold back any places for appeals children? If not, then where do the places actually come from?


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 06, 2011 10:14 pm 
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pfgvs wrote:
Do schools hold back any places for appeals children?
It would be unlawful to do so.

Quote:
If not, then where do the places actually come from?
They are additional. See http://www.elevenplusexams.co.uk/appeal ... bed-school

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 06, 2011 10:27 pm 
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I don't understand how qualification appeals children ever get a place when the grammar school is already oversubscribed with children who passed the 11+, but have not been offered a place and so are on a waiting list.
Are the waiting list children only considered if they put in a "resources" appeal, or will they automatically get a place which someone else turns it down?


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 07, 2011 6:27 am 
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Location: Kent
Etienne would be able to explain far better than me but I'll give it a go!

A school cannot go over the PAN, however all parents have the right to appeal. It would be most advisable to go on the waiting list and appeal. If a place becomes available prior to the appeals it is offered to the next DC on the waiting list so an appeal would not be needed. If you chose not to appeal and then the panel force the school to take, lets say 5 extra DC over PAN (and this is the only way it can be exceeded). The school would need 6 DC to leave before being able to offer again to the waiting list because they cannot go over the PAN themselves and 5 places were forced on to them. It's not as simple as saying they can replace 1 for another..........

Hope that made sense. It's early and I have hay fever :cry:

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 07, 2011 8:53 am 
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What I don't understand is how a non qualification child ever gets a place if there are lots of children who did qualify and are on the waiting list. If anyone drops out it seems the place is automatically filled with a waiting list child, not an appeals child. Is there a point when they stop filling up "drop out" places with waiting list children to give the appeals ones a look in?
At what stage does the panel decide how many over PAN can be accepted? Is it before, during, or after the appeals are heard, and do we get told how many extra places there are? Presumably if the answer is none over PAN then all appeals are a waste of time.
My child did not qualify, and there is a large number that did qualify, but have no place.
It is the balance between waiting list and appeals children which I am very confused about,
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 07, 2011 9:34 am 
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The waiting list and appeals are separate. As long as there are children on the waiting list, they will be allocated any place that becomes available (up to the published admissions number = PAN).

When a school is full the appeal panel is deciding if the school can accept additional children, over and above the published admissions number. Have a look at http://www.elevenplusexams.co.uk/appeal ... -school#c2 -The balancing stage.


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 07, 2011 9:58 am 
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I understand that all places up to PAN will be filled with waiting list children. Suppose the panel decide 2 extra children can be offered places - do these automatically go to other waiting list children, or to waiting list children who have appealed, or to non qualification appeal children?
I really don't understand how these places are allocated. If the panel are convinced by a non qualification appeal, then does that child join the waiting list and get ranked by the admission criteria? So a non qualification appeal could be won, and a place not offered.
I think all the children who passed and were not offered a place are out of catchment, so would a catchment child who wins a non qualification appeal jump ahead if that is how the oversub. policy works?
We are in catchment, but DS did not qualify. Lots of out of catchment children did qualify, but don't have a place. Thanks


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 07, 2011 10:08 am 
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Some good explanations above.

Although the waiting list & appeals are entirely separate, appeals - as Tracy has pointed out - can affect the waiting list (e.g. 5 successful appeals means that 6 children have to drop out before a place becomes available from the waiting list).

pfgvs, I referred you to the Q&As earlier on. C2 explains when and how the panel make their decisions. They do not fix a number as such - they are looking at individual cases.

NFER used to write that the result of a reasoning test is a 'snapshot' on a particular day, and may not be reliable. I have no problem with the concept of a very bright child who has underperformed on the day of the 11+ because of extenuating circumstances, being deemed qualified by an appeal panel. That child might even be much brighter than a heavily tutored child who just managed to scrape through the 11+. See: http://www.elevenplusexams.co.uk/appeal ... cation#b26

It's just my view, but I wouldn't want to divide 'qualified children' up into 1st and 2nd class citizens (those who qualified directly, and those who qualified via an appeal). If they're qualified, they're qualified!

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