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 Post subject: Non-qualification appeal
PostPosted: Sun Apr 10, 2011 5:33 pm 
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We have lodged a non-qual appeal for our DC, are we able to find out if there are still places available at the school? If so, do/can we ask the school for this information? Presumably if there are places available at the time of our appeal we are only(!) appealing on the grounds of non-qualification and not over subscription too (which would be even harder). Forgive me if its a daft question...


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 11, 2011 8:59 am 
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I think you can just call the school and ask, if not try the LEA. If you want to say here what school it is someone may know if hey are up to PAN or not. :)


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 11, 2011 2:54 pm 
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I'm curious to know how the appeal decision is reached - is a decision made following each individual appeal or are all the appeals heard and then a decision made about which ones (if any) to allow? If its the latter, are you better off having a late appeal date? If its the former are you better off having an early appeal date when fewer have been heard/upheld?


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 11, 2011 3:00 pm 
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An appeals panel member replied in a similar vein when I asked a question. We are 2nd or 3rd out of a potential 30 appeals and I was worried they would forget about us and it might be a disadvantage...I don't know if they make a note or a decision personally after each appeal, I suspect they must (I hope they do!!!)..and then see how many they have at the end?


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 11, 2011 4:31 pm 
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candl wrote:
I'm curious to know how the appeal decision is reached - is a decision made following each individual appeal ?

I would think and hope an individual appeal is looked at on its own merits and a decidion made regardless of the other appeals being heard - but would like to hear for sure from one of our experts :)


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 11, 2011 8:48 pm 
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candl wrote:
We have lodged a non-qual appeal for our DC, are we able to find out if there are still places available at the school? If so, do/can we ask the school for this information? Presumably if there are places available at the time of our appeal we are only(!) appealing on the grounds of non-qualification and not over subscription too (which would be even harder). Forgive me if its a daft question...
Not at all. You could be right if, for example, the school is 8 below PAN, and there are only 4 appeals.

The problem is that, if the school is 4 below PAN, for example, and there are 10 appeals, the total number of successful non-qualification appeals might potentially take the school above PAN. Oversubscription may not have been an issue at the beginning, but it could become an issue during the appeals process. Because of this, decisions on individual cases are not taken until the very end.

Except in Bucks [see below], which has a separate appeal against non-qualification, it would be wise always to include reasons for wanting a place at the school

See the Q&As, C2b:
http://www.elevenplusexams.co.uk/appeal ... -school#c2
Quote:
b. Stage 2 is sometimes called the “balancing stage”. The panel weighs up the problem that the admission of an extra child would cause the school, and compares that with the strength of the parental case. The side with the stronger case wins. You could have a strong case but lose the appeal because the panel decides the school case is even stronger! You could have a weak case but win your appeal because the school case is even weaker!

Another factor that might influence the result is the number of appeals being heard at the same time. If you are appealing for a very popular school immediately after what is known as “National Allocations Day” (allocation letters are posted on 1st March, or the first working day thereafter), there could be 20, 30 or even 40+ cases to be heard. These are often arranged as “multiple appeals”, and no decision is taken on any individual case until all the timely appeals have been heard. After hearing the timely appeals, the panel (and it has to be the same panel!) has to decide in each case whether the parental case outweighs the prejudice to the school.

Panel members then have to consider whether the school could cope with that number of (potentially) successful appeals. If they decide the school could not cope, they are obliged to move away from "each case is considered purely on its own merits," and they have to start comparing cases. They put all the cases in what they judge to be order of merit, and starting with the strongest they work their way down the list asking the question: where does the greater prejudice lie? If they think the prejudice to the child would be greater than the prejudice to the school, then a place is offered. (Each time they admit an extra pupil, of course, the prejudice to the school has become greater, and they will be conscious of this as they move on to take their decision on the next case.)


It makes no difference whether your case is heard first, last, or in the middle! Panel members and the clerk take careful notes of the key points of each case as the appeals proceed.

[Buckinghamshire selection appeals are different - they allow appeals solely on the issue of qualified status before 1st March, with no specific school being mentioned, and decisions in this situation are made immediately.]

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 12, 2011 7:38 am 
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So does that mean, therefore, that although we are preparing an appeal on non-qual grounds we should also be prepared to argue for the over subscription bit too? Or is this something for the appeal panel to deal with if it arises based upon our submitted evidence?

Its all very stressful but quite interesting too - there's an awful lot that goes on in the background which I wasn't aware of. Its a nightmare for a control freak like me!


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 12, 2011 10:56 am 
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Just to add to my previous post - I meant to make it clearer that taking the school over PAN wouldn't be an issue in itself for an appeals panel. (They're putting schools over PAN all the time, after all! :)) However, there is a paragraph in the Code of Practice that requires an appeal panel to determine whether the school could actually cope with the total number of appeals they are minded to allow (having considered each case on its own merits), and - if they think the number is too many - it's at that point they have to compare cases and decide which of them to uphold.

If you were to find out now how many vacancies there are at the school, and how many appeals have been registered, the situation could have changed by the time of the appeal. Although there is an 'administrative deadline' for registering an appeal, there is no deadline in law, and any late appeals will almost certainly still be slotted in if it is logistically possible.

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although we are preparing an appeal on non-qual grounds we should also be prepared to argue for the over subscription bit too?
I do think this would be a wise precaution, so that you don't get caught out. If the appeal panel don't need the information, they are free to ignore it or even stop you. If they do need it to make their decision, the information could be decisive.

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 12, 2011 11:58 am 
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Do the Appeal Panel take into account the school that's already been offered, ie. would they look more favourably at an appeal for a child who has passed the 11+, but has not been offered a grammar school at all, or is it totally irrelevant?


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 12, 2011 12:12 pm 
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viewtopic.php?f=35&t=17441&p=208735&hilit=+school+offered+#p208735

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