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PostPosted: Sat Mar 10, 2007 11:14 pm 
Dear Etienne,

My sister failed the the Sutton Coldfield girls grammar school teest, 315 test score 3 away from the waiting list threshold of 318 and 9 under the threshold of 325.
She passed the King Edwards VI Camp Hill girls.
My question is, would it be worth appealling and using the fact that she passed the second 11+ exam, failing the first one due to nerves, inexperience et cetera?

Please see this thread also;
viewtopic.php?t=2219

Much apprecitated

Regards


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 11, 2007 7:28 am 
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Dear Sayed

Whether or not it is worth appealing depends very much on the strength of the case you can put forward (academic evidence and extenuating circumstances).

I don't known what the totality of your academic evidence would be (see Q&As, section B11). The single point about an alternative 11+ result raises a number of questions. Was the format of the test, the standardisation, and the passmark the same? Or can it be clearly established that this test was harder than the other one?

As far as extenuating circumstances are concerned, "nerves" is rarely a strong argument, unless your sister can prove that she has a history of problems related to a nervous disposition.

Regards

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Etienne


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 11, 2007 12:30 pm 
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Joined: Sat Mar 10, 2007 11:42 pm
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Location: Tamworth
Thank you Etienne.
No history of nervous disposition.

From what I understand, the Sutton Coldfield grammar girls examination was VR, NVR (multple choice) and mathematics.
However the King Edwards the 6th school group exam for Camp Hill Girls, she was examined on VR, NVR(multple choice) , mathematics AND English component, with some of the questions in multiple choice format.

KE Camp Hill - 343
Bishop Vesey/Sutton girls - 324

Quite possible the exams were of the same type and similar standardisation, however will need to confirm this with their admissions office.
Assumptions aside, I've asked my sister and clearly she was more confident in the 2nd 11+ exam like many others, never been tutored and been under such pressure until the 11+ exam day. Furthermore, the addition of an english component may have been her stronger subject.
Could that be a point to argue on?


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 11, 2007 9:04 pm 
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Dear Sayed

You may be obliged to resort to something like "nerves" or "stress", for want of anything else, but if stress were to carry much weight, one would expect some other indications in the lead-up to the tests: for example, sleepless nights and a visit to the GP, or perhaps an unexpected change in the normal pattern of behaviour.

When I mentioned the possibility that one test might be harder than the other, I wasn't thinking in terms of what would suit your sister. If the tests are different, then usually the view would be that they cannot be directly compared. It's just possible that, locally, one test might have the reputation of being more difficult than the other.

For academic evidence I think you should be concentrating on the usual "indicators" (Q&As, section B11), and should discuss these with the current headteacher.

Regards

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Etienne


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 11, 2007 10:10 pm 
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Location: Birmingham
Dear Sayed

It may be helpful if I provide some further information about the differences between the Sutton Girls Grammar and KE Camp Hill Girls 11+ exams.

The Sutton Girls 11+ exam is run by Birmingham City Council and is a std type NFER format whereas the KE Foundation Grammar exam is a completely different format set by the Univ of Durham Curriculum & Mgt centre.

The pass marks for the various KE Grammar schools vary from school to school and from year to year. The pass marks for the some of KE grammars have been posted elsewhere on this forum( Camp Hill Boys, KEFW and KE Aston are this year 343, 328 and 324 respectively) but I don't think the KE Girls schools have been posted yet. One thing I can predict is that it will NOT be 343. Camp Hill Girls is always significantly lower than Camp Hill Boys, last year it was 329 and the year before 323.

Your sister has done extremely well to pass KE Camp Hill Girls, it is very much harder to pass than Sutton Coldfield Girls. There are normally more than 1600 candidates for only 120 places. Sutton Coldfield Girls is statistically much easier to get into which I guess does make you sister's results a bit odd.

The problem you have is the fact that the exams are set and administered by completely different organisations, B/Ham LEA have nothing to do with the KE Foundation exam and vice-versa - so I doubt if appealing on the that your sister passed an apparently much harder exam will have any influence on the LEA.

What you might want to do however is to consider whether KE Handsworth Girls might be more appropriate - I notice that you appear to live in the Lichfield/Tamworth area and I do know that an a lot of girls do travel to KE Handsworth Girls from that area. There are a number of special school buses run by the Green Bus Company. (see thegreenbus.org )

I think it worthwhile looking into this further and talking to the KE Foundation Office if you think this is possible. They may be able to accomodate in this respect without an appeal as KE Handsworth Girls pass mark is normally quite a bit lower than KE Camp Hill Girls. Last year it was 319 and the year before 317.

I would strongly recommend that you explore this option further.

Regards

Ken


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 12, 2007 6:04 pm 
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Joined: Sat Mar 10, 2007 11:42 pm
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Location: Tamworth
Thank you for your replies, both Ken and Etienne.

Will forward this to my father.
The only problem is, with Camp Hill girls, we've encountered an obstacle, with reference to this thread viewtopic.php?t=2225
At the moment, having to refuse the place at the local comp. and appeal for the place at Camp Hill girls for placing it lower in the preference table.
Could you please recommend any couse of action?

Regards
Sayed


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 12, 2007 6:46 pm 
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Location: Birmingham
Hi Sayed

Spotted your other posting afterwards so I know realise the additional problems.

As I see it this is my assessment and recommended course of action:-

    Firstly, I think you need to recognise that lodging an appeal for Sutton Coldfield Grammar is going to be a very long shot. My recommendation would be to forget that and to concentrate on other alternatives.

    Secondly, you say that your sister definitely passed KE Camp Hill although she wasn't offered a place because you put down the local Tamworth comprehensive as 2nd choice. You need to get this confirmed and find out the exam score. I presume you have already spoken to the KE Foundation Office about this.

    Thirdly, assuming the pass mark for KE Camp Hill Girls is confirmed, you the need to review the transport logistics to decide if travel to either KE Handsworth Girls or Camp Hill Girls is viable. Check the green bus web site http://www.thegreenbus.org and the trains for the timetable and to see if this could work for you. Consider this carefully, some of the buses leave at about 7am in the morning. If you think this really is ok then I would start off by phoning the school and speaking to the person handing admissions.

    Explain to them that you have made a mistake with your priorities and have been allocated a local comp but that your sister/daughter passed the Camp Hill Girls exam and you now really want to go to school x (camp Hill or Handsworth) - is there anything that can be done? what I (you) have to do?

    This will have to be done via the LEA - but the School and/or KE Foundation will be able to advise you. An appeal on the basis that you passed the exam but screwed up the LEA priorities form is always a lot easier than than one based on a failure to achieve the pass mark.

    The important thing is to take a humble approach with the LEA and KE Admission people and don'r argue - terrible mistake - don't know what I was doing putting the schools in that order - can you help me? etc etc.


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 12, 2007 10:35 pm 
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Location: Tamworth
Again, KenR thank you for your reply. My dad had sent a letter off today to the KE foundation to clarify this and hopefully all should go through ok.

We have the rawlett confirmation letter (2nd choice comprehensive school in tamworth) and a letter fromt he KE foundation "I am able to confirm that (my sister) scored above the cut off mark of for admission to King edward VI Camp Hill Girls School" - I assume that means she passed...?

The next paragraph, it says she could not be offered a place because "she also met the admissions criteria for a school that you listed above the KE6 grammar schools on her LEA preference form" - I did put handsworth grammar as 5th choice but my parents would prefer camp hill.

Regards
Sayed


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 13, 2007 7:15 am 
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Location: Birmingham
Hi Sayed

I would recommend phoning the KE Foundation Office rather than simply writing to them - this may take too long. Also they this will have to be cleared by the LEA.

They are normally ok regarding advice.

Regards


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 03, 2007 10:23 am 
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Joined: Sat Mar 10, 2007 11:42 pm
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Location: Tamworth
We have appealed and awaiting a decision from KE Camp Hill Girls taking place soon.
However, the distasteful attitude of our staffordshire LEA has been the main barrier to KE Camp HIll offering a place and from what I understand (phone calls and letters) they didn't want my sister to attend Camp Hill girls as they would lose a very good student to a grammar school as opposed to her going to the comp.
This local comprehensive, Rawlett isn't to bad as a lot of students are attending from the ourskirt Tamworth villages. Though, my sister whose friend has an older sister there has been bullied and this seems to be a recurrent problem possibly because the school has to intake from the nearby estate that has violent drug problems.

To be frank, I am getting pi**ed off with the attitude of our LEA as similar situation did happen with myself. Even though I am at med. school, this was all without the help of my rubbish high school and their incompetence result in having to take a gap year and I had many years of troubles between year 7-11.

Will report back of anymore news.


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