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 Post subject: To Appeal or Not?
PostPosted: Thu Oct 20, 2011 9:39 am 
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My DD did the 11+ hoping to get into Stroud High School in Glos. She didn't make the pass mark by 9 points which I'm guessing is about 5 questions. She only managed 65 of the 85 questions on the 1st paper and finished the 2nd. She got a slightly higher score in the first paper which means she must have done very well on it.

Her teacher is very keen for me to appeal and we have a good case. She is dyslexic and because of that her timing is slow - hence only 65 of 85 answered. DH is adamant that we appeal but I know now that DD has accepted the situation and has decided that, as all of her friends (bar one who's on the waiting list) will be going to the local comp (which is a v. good school), she is happy to go there and really want's to go there now.

I feel she SHOULD have a say in this matter and may become very resentful of the idea of the grammar as time goes on.

What should I do? Am in a quandary :(


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 Post subject: Re: To Appeal or Not?
PostPosted: Thu Oct 20, 2011 9:49 am 
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There are a fair few people each year who (rightly I think) opt to appeal without really involving the child at all.

these kids are really very young to decide such things and are easily swung by what friends are doing - equally they are upset by failing something whether it is the exam or the appeal - often the distress lasts longer in the parents though :roll: :wink: .

Kids need a consistent message and that can't be given by parents appealing - too much uncertainty!

If you want to appeal do.. but can be done without telling DD - keep the stress and angst to yourself. If it is successful then you may find she is so chuffed that she will be v keen to go there - maybe she won't want to - but better that than getting her hopes up over the next many, many months and seeing her parents stressed and possibly see them disappointed (again)


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 Post subject: Re: To Appeal or Not?
PostPosted: Thu Oct 20, 2011 10:16 am 
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I understand what you are saying but I am of the view that she should have some input and have already told her that it's a possiblility. My fear in not telling her is that the longer she is of the opinion she's going to the comp, the more it will bed in as her vision of her future. If I didn't tell her and then we sprung it on her next summer that she was going to the Grammar, she would spin into a panic. I know what she is like and not telling her would be a disaster.


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 Post subject: Re: To Appeal or Not?
PostPosted: Thu Oct 20, 2011 12:11 pm 
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Joined: Sun May 13, 2007 8:03 pm
Posts: 1827
Location: Gloucestershire
hermanmunster wrote:
If it is successful then you may find she is so chuffed that she will be v keen to go there - maybe she won't want to - but better that than getting her hopes up over the next many, many months and seeing her parents stressed and possibly see them disappointed (again)

There is one downside to appealing without telling the child - and that is if you win the appeal yet your child (once you have told them about the results) does not want to go.

For that particular school, they have coped with around 128 pupils without prejudicing the education/safety of the other children in the school for many years. That's 8 over PAN/IAN.

That appeal panel will often feel they can allow - say - 8 appeals to take the intake from 120 to 128.

If you win the appeal, yet don't take up that place, it will NOT be offered to someone else. Appeals panels do not create a waiting list, so effectively you may well be depriving another child of a place.

This also happens if a parent appeals for multiple schools and wins all the appeals. It also effectively happens if a child just doesn't turn up at school on the first day of term, maybe because they were offered a scholarship at a private school, or moved away from the area, and the parents forgot to tell the school that they didn't need the place.

Parents are within their rights to not take up a place after they've won an appeal, but to be fair to all the other parents, they should somehow at least make sure that the child would like to take up a place.

Sorry - that all sounds a bit negative; it's not meant to be.

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 Post subject: Re: To Appeal or Not?
PostPosted: Thu Oct 20, 2011 12:36 pm 
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Capers, that's not negaive at all. It is really helpful to know these things and what you have said would be a major consideration especially if my DD was a bit wobbly about going.


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 Post subject: Re: To Appeal or Not?
PostPosted: Thu Oct 20, 2011 3:33 pm 
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Quote:
so effectively you may well be depriving another child of a place.
While this is possible, I would have felt more comfortable if it had simply read "so you might be depriving another child of a place".

Appeal panels do not have a pre-determined number of slots to fill (at least they shouldn't have unless the system is being manipulated! :roll:). Multiple appeals of any size are likely to have a spread of cases - compelling ones, average ones, and weak ones. The starting point for determining each individual case is simply "Is it strong enough to outweigh any prejudice to the school?" The total number of cases that meet this criterion is - or ought to be! - unpredictable. The panel is then meant to go on to consider whether the school could cope with the total number of appeals that it is minded to allow. However, no one ought really to be able to say at this point in time how many cases will meet the initial criterion of "Is it strong enough to outweigh any prejudice to the school?"!

I do think it's a good tactic not to tell the child what is going on if there's a risk of hopes being raised unnecessarily - and then being dashed. This does not apply here, and I can fully understand why daughter needs to be involved in the process.

For what it's worth, sarajtb, my advice would be to appeal just to keep all your options open. You are free to cancel your appeal at any point in time.

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 Post subject: Re: To Appeal or Not?
PostPosted: Thu Oct 20, 2011 8:30 pm 
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Location: Berkshire
Before the test, how did your daughter feel? Perhaps she is just being very mature about the whole thing ? Presumably she was interested in going to the GS?

I would do as Etienne advises. You shouldn't worry about taking up a place that another will not be able to take up. An appeal panel should consider every case on it's own merits, and not decide with reference to potential space in the school, in my view.


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 Post subject: Re: To Appeal or Not?
PostPosted: Fri Oct 21, 2011 9:45 am 
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Looking for help - She was very keen to go to the GS but I think that her attitude now is, "I didn't pass the exam so I'm now going to the comp - and I'm looking forward to it." I'm so proud of her. :)

I have, however, said to her that we may appeal and we should keep our options open on that one as we have several months to think about it and we shouldn't close the door on it just yet.

It is her teacher who is championing her cause with regard to an appeal. Her CAT scores were top of the class. They weren't massively high but good scores nontheless - they averaged out at 118. I'm not sure if they are considered resonable for GS on this forum but they indicate to me that she would have been fine there.


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 Post subject: Re: To Appeal or Not?
PostPosted: Fri Oct 21, 2011 12:58 pm 
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Posts: 417
sara
It is a shame your senco did not request extra time from SHS for the test. If your DD has dyslexia and has been assessed your senco at primary could have asked for extra time. DD2 had this and sat the test in a room by herself. Not SHS but another glos grammar. Although she did finish in time I feel the extra time helped her not to feel more anxious about timing. Plus having no distractions was a good thing for her.

On another note, a good comp may have strengths in helping your DD. Some are much more clued up on dyslexia and strategies to support it. I am not saying your DD would not cope at grammar, my DD loves school but there were a few teething problems regarding her dyslexia. Might it help you to decide by chatting to someone at the school she might go to? Please don't let me put you off appealing, that's not my intention but be aware the schools do ask for any special needs info before the DCs sit the test. I know others on the forum such as Etienne know more about this though and how it would relate to an appeal.
Good luck with your decision, I know how difficult it is to know exactly what to do. I am sure your DD will do well wherever she goes. x


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 Post subject: Re: To Appeal or Not?
PostPosted: Fri Oct 21, 2011 10:25 pm 
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Location: Gloucestershire
I would appeal, especially if you didn't ask for or were not given extra time. You would be advised to ask the school side at the appeal what support the school has in place for the dyslexics, just to alert the panel to the fact that the school can cope with dyslexics. They do have a SENCO at the school to support the children with a surprisingly large range of problems, but the panel may/will not know that (don't assume they will know).

I don't know who is on the SHS panel - I just happen to have children there.

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