Out of catchment
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Sally-Anne
- Posts: 9235
- Joined: Wed Jan 11, 2006 8:10 pm
- Location: Buckinghamshire
Re: Out of catchment
Yes, that's right.
Don't feel too in awe of me - I'm having a lovely time on iPlayer, catching up on TV programmes I've missed because my family monopolised the TV to watch stuff for boyz. (Story of my life ...)
S-A
Don't feel too in awe of me - I'm having a lovely time on iPlayer, catching up on TV programmes I've missed because my family monopolised the TV to watch stuff for boyz. (Story of my life ...)
S-A
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Sally-Anne
- Posts: 9235
- Joined: Wed Jan 11, 2006 8:10 pm
- Location: Buckinghamshire
Re: Out of catchment
Thank you - safely received. I have sent you a PM (via this forum's PM system, not an email) and I will await your thoughts.
S-A
S-A
Re: Out of catchment
Hi again... No need to sleep on it.
I have replied to your pm.
Thanks again
I have replied to your pm.
Thanks again
Re: Out of catchment
• Wow what a roller coaster ride the last few months have been! Alas, the end result being a happy 11 year old and parents who now understand his learning style in so much more detail.
We have also the knowledge that the 'system' does work for those who can show academic ability. However, I can say unreservedly that without this site and in particular the help of one particular member, that our outcome would not have been as positive.
Thank you, thank you, thank you
I have copied the below from the sticky post feed.
1. Local Authority area in which the appeal took place:
Bucks
• 2. What you were appealing against?
A.Non qualification (110/109!!!)
• 5. Approx. date of appeal hearing:
Friday 24th February 2012
• 6. How many days in advance of the hearing, including weekends, did you receive the case papers?
12 days
• 7. Where was the appeal held?
County council offices, Aylesbury
• 8a. Did your individual hearing start more or less on time?
Yes, 09:30 which I believe was the 1st slot of the day
• 8b. If not, how late was it in starting?
• 9. What sort of independent appeal panel did you have?
• a. A panel appointed by the Local Authority? - because
(ii) it's responsible for hearing Bucks 'selection' appeals.
• 10. Who was on the panel?
(if you were told, e.g. a retired teacher, a businessman, and school governor - no names, please.)
Non Lay Chairman - background in Engineering
Lay Member - doctor
Non lay member - Has children in the system and part of other community groups (can't remember exactly now!)
LA rep - retired headmaster from Aylesbury area
Clerk - barrister in training
• 12. Did the appeal follow the recommended order of business?
• a. the case for the admission authority;
• b. questioning by the appellants and panel
• c. the case for the appellants;
• d. questioning by the admission authority and panel;
• e. summing up by the admission authority; and
• f. summing up by the appellants.
Yes
• 13a. Had your case already been considered by a Review Panel?
(sometimes applies to non-qualification)
No
• 14. What questions were you asked about your case?
1st questions revolved around his chest infection and dates off school prior to test, and after, they wanted to understand if there was any impact in the exam. We played this down and explained we submitted the info as we were trying to understand his low scores ourselves and this was only a small part of our case.
Then questions re: preparation
- what exactly did he score in familiarisation papers?
- what conditions did he do them in? (in kitchen, with brothers & dogs in the other room)
- did we purchase any other practise papers? (ie:from WH Smith or the Internet)
- what type of questions did he get wrong in the practice papers?
- who took him through the papers?
- how did we explain his wrong answers?
Then questions about the actual test :
- where did he sit the tests?
- how was he feeling on the morning of the test?
- did he finish?
- did he then have chance to check his answers?
- why do we think his scores tailed off towards the end of the paper? Can we explain this?
- How well did he feel he did on the tests?
- How many other kids took the 11+ from his school ? ( we are Out of catchment & a non partner school!)
- do we know how many passed?
Then questions about his current schooling:
- how do they stream the kids at his school?
- how does the mixed year group affect him?
- how can we explain the jumps in performance from his yearly tracker?
- has he & how has he addressed 1 comment from school report which said 'he could sometimes apply more effort'
• 15. What were the panel like?
(e.g. Were they friendly? polite? considerate?)
We both found them to be very polite, curtious and genuinely interested in our case, wanting to understand the difference in his academic ability and a poor 11+result.
They all tried to put us at ease, by each introducing themselves with a short history of who they were and why they were involved in the appeals process.
• 16. As far as you know, was the representative of the admission authority left alone with the panel at any point in time? (It's acceptable for the representative to be waiting outside the room, but he/she must not be already in the room with the panel when you arrive, or remain in the room with the panel when you leave.)
There was no point which he was left alone, he waited outside with us whilst the panel looked through our DS school books. We found him to be very friendly and chatty.
• 17. Were you asked at the end of the hearing whether you had had sufficient time to state your case (or words to that effect)?
Yes
• 18. Did you feel rushed?
Absolutely NOT
• 19. How long did the hearing last?
(excluding the group hearing, if there was one)
45minutes with an added 8minutes to go through his school work (3 current school books:maths; science & English)
• 20. Were you told you could telephone for the decision?
(most authorities do not allow this, although some do)
No
• 21. If you have the result, was your appeal successful?
Yehar..... Yes,yes,yes
• 22. How long did you have to wait for the decision, including weekends?
Appeal date 24/2/12 Friday
Letter dated: 27/2/12 Monday
Arrived 2/3/12
We actually realised we were successful a day before the letter arrived, when we were notified of his place at our chosen grammar school.
I did phone and request the letter was emailed, but this was declined!
• 23. Success rates for appeals for this school (if applicable, and if known):
• a. on this occasion
Not known
• 24. Any other comments:
Our DS scored 110/109 in his 11+ and we only decided to appeal after his HT confirmed that We did not have an unrealistic opinion of his ability. Like so many of the people on this forum, he was currently achieving well above average at school, already achieving level 5s in year 5 and had a 1:1 and an exceptional report from his HT.
Because we were out of catchment and although the school had deemed our DS gifted and talented in Maths and Science we decided to have an external assessment to help us understand why he performed so poorly and if there were any grounds to confirm a grammar school would be the best environment for him.
He spent 2 1/2 hours being tested by a lovely lady, who very quickly turned a report around for us. We also managed to postpone our hearing date due to this additional evidence. This report quite clearly demonstrated his exceptional abilities, Stating he would be best served by a school focused on science, technology, engineering & maths. We questioned, very respectfully that ' perhaps the 11+ was not a test that best fits all' it highlighted his weekness's rather than his strengths.
The panel only concentrated on academic ability, the familiarisation process & current schooling. At no point did they discuss his out of schooling activities or any personal attributes.
I read our appeal case and both my husband and I answered relevant questions.
To win an appeal on 110/109 is very rare, but I can honestly say that if it wasn't for the exceptional help and support of this forum and in particular one member(not sure I can say?) that we wouldn't be smiling from ear to ear in the knowledge that our DS will blossom in his future education!
Thank you!
We have also the knowledge that the 'system' does work for those who can show academic ability. However, I can say unreservedly that without this site and in particular the help of one particular member, that our outcome would not have been as positive.
Thank you, thank you, thank you
I have copied the below from the sticky post feed.
1. Local Authority area in which the appeal took place:
Bucks
• 2. What you were appealing against?
A.Non qualification (110/109!!!)
• 5. Approx. date of appeal hearing:
Friday 24th February 2012
• 6. How many days in advance of the hearing, including weekends, did you receive the case papers?
12 days
• 7. Where was the appeal held?
County council offices, Aylesbury
• 8a. Did your individual hearing start more or less on time?
Yes, 09:30 which I believe was the 1st slot of the day
• 8b. If not, how late was it in starting?
• 9. What sort of independent appeal panel did you have?
• a. A panel appointed by the Local Authority? - because
(ii) it's responsible for hearing Bucks 'selection' appeals.
• 10. Who was on the panel?
(if you were told, e.g. a retired teacher, a businessman, and school governor - no names, please.)
Non Lay Chairman - background in Engineering
Lay Member - doctor
Non lay member - Has children in the system and part of other community groups (can't remember exactly now!)
LA rep - retired headmaster from Aylesbury area
Clerk - barrister in training
• 12. Did the appeal follow the recommended order of business?
• a. the case for the admission authority;
• b. questioning by the appellants and panel
• c. the case for the appellants;
• d. questioning by the admission authority and panel;
• e. summing up by the admission authority; and
• f. summing up by the appellants.
Yes
• 13a. Had your case already been considered by a Review Panel?
(sometimes applies to non-qualification)
No
• 14. What questions were you asked about your case?
1st questions revolved around his chest infection and dates off school prior to test, and after, they wanted to understand if there was any impact in the exam. We played this down and explained we submitted the info as we were trying to understand his low scores ourselves and this was only a small part of our case.
Then questions re: preparation
- what exactly did he score in familiarisation papers?
- what conditions did he do them in? (in kitchen, with brothers & dogs in the other room)
- did we purchase any other practise papers? (ie:from WH Smith or the Internet)
- what type of questions did he get wrong in the practice papers?
- who took him through the papers?
- how did we explain his wrong answers?
Then questions about the actual test :
- where did he sit the tests?
- how was he feeling on the morning of the test?
- did he finish?
- did he then have chance to check his answers?
- why do we think his scores tailed off towards the end of the paper? Can we explain this?
- How well did he feel he did on the tests?
- How many other kids took the 11+ from his school ? ( we are Out of catchment & a non partner school!)
- do we know how many passed?
Then questions about his current schooling:
- how do they stream the kids at his school?
- how does the mixed year group affect him?
- how can we explain the jumps in performance from his yearly tracker?
- has he & how has he addressed 1 comment from school report which said 'he could sometimes apply more effort'
• 15. What were the panel like?
(e.g. Were they friendly? polite? considerate?)
We both found them to be very polite, curtious and genuinely interested in our case, wanting to understand the difference in his academic ability and a poor 11+result.
They all tried to put us at ease, by each introducing themselves with a short history of who they were and why they were involved in the appeals process.
• 16. As far as you know, was the representative of the admission authority left alone with the panel at any point in time? (It's acceptable for the representative to be waiting outside the room, but he/she must not be already in the room with the panel when you arrive, or remain in the room with the panel when you leave.)
There was no point which he was left alone, he waited outside with us whilst the panel looked through our DS school books. We found him to be very friendly and chatty.
• 17. Were you asked at the end of the hearing whether you had had sufficient time to state your case (or words to that effect)?
Yes
• 18. Did you feel rushed?
Absolutely NOT
• 19. How long did the hearing last?
(excluding the group hearing, if there was one)
45minutes with an added 8minutes to go through his school work (3 current school books:maths; science & English)
• 20. Were you told you could telephone for the decision?
(most authorities do not allow this, although some do)
No
• 21. If you have the result, was your appeal successful?
Yehar..... Yes,yes,yes
• 22. How long did you have to wait for the decision, including weekends?
Appeal date 24/2/12 Friday
Letter dated: 27/2/12 Monday
Arrived 2/3/12
We actually realised we were successful a day before the letter arrived, when we were notified of his place at our chosen grammar school.
I did phone and request the letter was emailed, but this was declined!
• 23. Success rates for appeals for this school (if applicable, and if known):
• a. on this occasion
Not known
• 24. Any other comments:
Our DS scored 110/109 in his 11+ and we only decided to appeal after his HT confirmed that We did not have an unrealistic opinion of his ability. Like so many of the people on this forum, he was currently achieving well above average at school, already achieving level 5s in year 5 and had a 1:1 and an exceptional report from his HT.
Because we were out of catchment and although the school had deemed our DS gifted and talented in Maths and Science we decided to have an external assessment to help us understand why he performed so poorly and if there were any grounds to confirm a grammar school would be the best environment for him.
He spent 2 1/2 hours being tested by a lovely lady, who very quickly turned a report around for us. We also managed to postpone our hearing date due to this additional evidence. This report quite clearly demonstrated his exceptional abilities, Stating he would be best served by a school focused on science, technology, engineering & maths. We questioned, very respectfully that ' perhaps the 11+ was not a test that best fits all' it highlighted his weekness's rather than his strengths.
The panel only concentrated on academic ability, the familiarisation process & current schooling. At no point did they discuss his out of schooling activities or any personal attributes.
I read our appeal case and both my husband and I answered relevant questions.
To win an appeal on 110/109 is very rare, but I can honestly say that if it wasn't for the exceptional help and support of this forum and in particular one member(not sure I can say?) that we wouldn't be smiling from ear to ear in the knowledge that our DS will blossom in his future education!
Thank you!
Re: Out of catchment
Wow - thats some result on that score!! Well done - you must be delighted! Your evidence must have been exceptional!!
Welcome to the Bucks Grammar system!!
Welcome to the Bucks Grammar system!!
-
scaredkentmum
- Posts: 82
- Joined: Tue Oct 04, 2011 8:26 am
Re: Out of catchment
Wow well done you! Are you allowed to tell us who the external assessment was done by? Presumably it was an EP? Shall we all go off and quickly google EPs in our own areas 
Sounds like you think that was a major help in your case.
Sounds like you think that was a major help in your case.Re: Out of catchment
Thank you,
The lady in question was I believe not an Ed psych, but an independent assessor, whose qualifications are accepted by the Bucks system.
I have emailed her to ask if she is happy for me to forward her details, which she is, so if you are interested please PM me and I can send you the links.
The report was pivotal to our appeal, highlighting our DS exceptional memory alongside maths and science which after much help (from this site!
) in decoding the report gave us our extra academic evidence to support our case.
I hope this is of help?
The lady in question was I believe not an Ed psych, but an independent assessor, whose qualifications are accepted by the Bucks system.
I have emailed her to ask if she is happy for me to forward her details, which she is, so if you are interested please PM me and I can send you the links.
The report was pivotal to our appeal, highlighting our DS exceptional memory alongside maths and science which after much help (from this site!
) in decoding the report gave us our extra academic evidence to support our case.I hope this is of help?
