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PostPosted: Thu Jan 19, 2012 9:57 am 
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Joined: Tue Oct 04, 2011 7:26 am
Posts: 82
Hi

We are trying to get ahead of the game as we know that we will have to appeal in March for non-qualification. Our son got 361.

He is predicted the following in KS2 sats; Maths 5b, Reading 5a, Writing 5c; he is also G&T for maths and has done additional work outside the classroom and in neighbouring schools as a G&T maths child. His reading age is not quite 2 years above chronological which is odd given his SATs prediction. He is in the top 3 in the year but he goes to a small school although the school is high achieving with last years KS2 sats in the top 10 in Kent.

The problem that we have is that is all the evidence that we have; our school do not do additional VR tests, nor do they do CAT scores. He does have an extenuating circumstance which I will mention briefly in the submission; but less than 2 sentences though, I did read the Q&As!

Is there anything else we can do or do we have to just accept that we don't have enough evidence :-(

Thanks


Last edited by scaredkentmum on Fri Mar 02, 2012 6:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 19, 2012 4:16 pm 
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Joined: Fri Aug 26, 2011 10:30 am
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Whilst I don't know anything about the Kent appeals process, I can share with you our experience of a Bucks appeal which we went through recently.

Like you, we only had KS2 predictions (5A/6) and G&T for maths, and were worried that wouldn't be enough as the school didn't do any other tests. We also had no extenuating circumstances. Our case was based on the consistent academic achievements since being at school, and we submitted year 4 and 5 reports to support this. We also mentioned KS1 results of 3 across all subjects.

Will your head teacher be supporting your appeal? In Bucks the HT has to complete a report which is submitted as part of the appeal. The wording in this was very strong (e.g. "cannot give a higher recommendation" and "recommend without reservation"), so if it is not routine in Kent, could you ask your HT for a letter of support for your case? We quoted a lot from this report in our appeal speech.

You mentioned your son is in the top 3 of his class, have any of his classmates qualified? This was another argument we used - that our child was consistently working at a higher level than others that had already qualified.

You could go down the Ed Psych route and get an independent report prepared. This was suggested to us, but we felt that this should surely reflect his classroom achievements anyway (probably a bit naive!).

We've just found out our appeal was successful, so please be reassured that it is possible on just the evidence you have.


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 19, 2012 9:39 pm 
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Joined: Mon Dec 12, 2005 5:26 pm
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As a connoisseur of the Q&As, I'm sure you will have seen our advice on evidence. :)
http://www.elevenplusexams.co.uk/appeal ... cation#b11

If I've understood the Kent system correctly, the scores you need to argue against are the VR and maths.

You already have some alternative evidence for maths.

The only suggestion I can make is an educational psychologist's report which would give you some alternative evidence of VR.
http://www.elevenplusexams.co.uk/appeal ... ication#b3

It's a bit of a gamble, though - you'd be paying a lot of money for a result that he might not get - and even if he did, no one can ever guarantee the outcome of an appeal!

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Etienne


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 20, 2012 3:12 pm 
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Joined: Tue Oct 04, 2011 7:26 am
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Thanks Aylesbury
I went to see the HT today and of course found out that she has more evidence than I do - obviously really ! Thanks for prompting me.

Etienne - the EP is so difficult, as you say its a lot of money for something that might not give you the right result. Can you advise if Kent appeal need classroom books brought in please or is best to assume they need them?

We will keep focusing on the verbal evidence and see what else we can dig out.

Thanks for your support for the long journey :-)


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 20, 2012 5:04 pm 
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As far as I recall from the feedback we've had on the forum, your local panels aren't wildly enthusiastic about inspecting school work! - perhaps taking the view that a report from the school + KS2 predictions tells them all they need to know about day-to-day curriculum work.

If the books are good, you could have them with you just in case they express an interest.

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 22, 2012 5:56 pm 
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Joined: Fri Apr 01, 2011 6:12 pm
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Hi ScaredKentMum
I went through an appeal for a Kent grammar last year, it was for over subscription though as opposed to Non-qual.
With regards to evidence, collect as much as you can. You need a letter from the HT, with predicted SAT scores, any other test scores (CATS, previous SATs) mention of G&T maths status etc. This must be on headed paper. Can you get letters of support from other teachers with copies of reports?. Highlight important parts of the report..you can have letters from music teachers or sports specialists if this is appropriate for the school you want (e.g it has a music specialism)
They don't want to see books at all because they can't/won't judge the standard.
Think about why you want this school, it must look to suit your child more than any other...so anything to support that.
Feel free to message me if you want more help...


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 22, 2012 8:28 pm 
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Joined: Tue Oct 04, 2011 7:26 am
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Hi Red

Thanks for the reply, I realised that my first post was slightly dumb! I went through all my sons stuff and of course I could not find enough evidence and had a bit of a panic. Aylesbury's point about HT letter made me go and see her and of course she has loads more evidence than I have, I don't know why I didn't think of that before; poor women I think I am going to try her patience! I think I will now ask her form teacher for a letter too so thanks for suggesting that too.

We have to do a non qualification and then an over subscription appeal; presumably its only one meeting though and I have to address both issues in one meeting. There is so much to think about that its a bit overwhelming really. Even if we make our case for non qual we are likely to be at the end of the queue for a place though :-(


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 24, 2012 2:10 pm 
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Hello Skm !

I have just seen your last post about non qualification and oversubscription appeal hearings...I am just rushing out of the door but wanted to say that many schools will hear both in one hearing but some schools in Kent last Summer heard the oversubscription appeal first and then individual appeals a few days later.

Tigger


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 02, 2012 12:22 pm 
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Joined: Tue Oct 04, 2011 7:26 am
Posts: 82
Hello

Well obviously we did not get a GS from the CAF but at least we got our favoured school so my DS is relatively happy. We are still going to go ahead with our appeal for the GS, but not telling our son as I know the odds are against us.

We are 13 miles from the school which is not a super selective. I know that yesterday they have taken boys up to 10 miles away. So after talking last night with friends I have been wondering if it useful for us to know some stats about our favoured school; so things like the number of children on roll in each year, numbers they have allocated this year, distance from school, numbers on WL, those who have failed 11plus but have got a place (I know that they have taken in the past). Is it worth putting in a FOI request for this information or is it not really relevant. I would quite like to know all this but I am not really sure if its helpful or its just my NEED to know some hard facts. Will any of this help my case?


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 02, 2012 12:29 pm 
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Posts: 938
Hi Scaredmum,
I think you maybe need to separate the two different issues in your mind ie non qualification and over subscription and then tackle them separately. So, for example, when you get to the latter I'm sure information that you have mentioned such as PAN, times the school has gone over PAN etc will be very useful in your argument ie if they have fitted 94 instead of 90 in before it would suggest that they could do so again.
Very good luck! I'm sure you'll get lots of invaluable help from this forum. :)


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