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 Post subject: Essex appeal
PostPosted: Tue Mar 06, 2012 8:19 pm 
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Posts: 136
We are thinking of appealing for an Essex Grammar School (GS) and have a few questions:

1. If the child has received a place at a non-grammar, must she first reject the non-GS and then launch the appeal, or can she accept the non GS now and then launch the appeal anyway? We are afraid of losing the place at the non GS. The deadline for us is 15 March.

2. Do you know of anyone who can help us draft the grounds of appeal on a professional basis?

3. Where do I go to get an EP Report? She has passed the CSSE 11+ but as usual, being out of catchment, was not able to make the GS.

4. Where do I go to get her tested for her CATs score?

5. Her score was 56 out of 80 for VR, 21 out of 40 for maths and 24 out of 50 for English. Total score is 316. Do we have a strong argument that the exam was a blip?

6. She has siblings in the GS that we are appealing for.

7. Finally, can she appeal for two GS? or is it just one? It seems contradictory to me that she should be appealing to two schools...

Many thanks for your response and thoughts.


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 Post subject: Re: Appeal
PostPosted: Tue Mar 06, 2012 9:23 pm 
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Joined: Mon Dec 12, 2005 5:26 pm
Posts: 7059
Quote:
1. If my child has received a place at a non-grammar, must she first reject the non-GS and then launch the appeal, or can she accept the non GS now and then launch the appeal anyway? We are afraid of losing the place at the non GS. The deadline for us is 15 March.
She should accept what's offered. It doesn't stop her appealing.

Quote:
2. Do you know of anyone who can help us draft the grounds of appeal on a professional basis?
It's not necessary, and we strongly advise against this.
http://www.elevenplusexams.co.uk/appeals/general#a11

Quote:
3. Where do I go to get an EP Report? She has passed the CSSE 11+ but as usual, being out of catchment, was not able to make the GS.
http://www.elevenplusexams.co.uk/appeal ... cation#b38

Quote:
4. The cut off date for an appeal is 29 March. How soon will my appeal be heard? I am afraid that accepting another GS (If she gets it on waiting list) may affect her chances at the appeal.
Most appeals are held at some point in the summer term. The admission authority has discretion (within limits).
Quote:
Admission authorities must publish their appeals timetable on their website by 28 February each year.


Quote:
5. Finally, can she appeal for two GS? or is it just one? It seems contradictory to me that she should be appealing to two schools...
She can appeal for any school - provided she has applied and been refused.

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 Post subject: Re: Appeal
PostPosted: Tue Mar 06, 2012 9:43 pm 
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Joined: Sat Dec 06, 2008 1:41 pm
Posts: 136
Many thanks Etienne for being so kind and responding so fast!

Please can you help clarify this point:

"It’s disappointing that some educational psychologists do not advise parents of the margin of error associated with a single test result. There are ‘confidence band’ tables that might say, for example, “with a score of x there is a 95 percent chance that the true score lies within such-and-such a range”."

Does this then mean that more than one report is needed? I understand the EP is but one factor to be considered. However, I read in that section that MostHappyDad in Kent had more than one CATS report and this helped to show that the child's score was consistent. The child's school does not run CATs tests but Headteacher is supportive and SATs levels are good.

Would it be too much for us to put in academic reports from Reception to Year 6?

Many thanks once again.


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 Post subject: Re: Appeal
PostPosted: Tue Mar 06, 2012 10:20 pm 
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Quote:
"It’s disappointing that some educational psychologists do not advise parents of the margin of error associated with a single test result. There are ‘confidence band’ tables that might say, for example, “with a score of x there is a 95 percent chance that the true score lies within such-and-such a range”.
Does this then mean that more than one report is needed?
I don't think that would be practical, (a) because the cost would be even more prohibitive than it already is, and (b) because ideally the reports would need to be well-spaced out. I was just arguing that (in my view) all EPs should be up front about the reliability of tests. I feel sure most do in fact provide confidence intervals - but if they don't, parents should ask for a copy.

Quote:
I understand the EP is but one factor to be considered. However, I read in that section that MostHappyDad in Kent had more than one CATS report and this helped to show that the child's score was consistent.
MHD in Kent was lucky in that one set of CATs was done at the primary school, and a second by the secondary school in the summer term prior to entry (to assist with setting in year 7). The third was done by a tutoring organisation at the start of their course - not something I would normally recommend in isolation, but the scores did fit well with the other CATs results.

I'm aware of some primary schools (very much a minority!) that administer CATs in years 3, 4, 5 and 6. That sort of well-spaced out, regular testing can be very informative.

Quote:
The child's school does not run CATs tests but Headteacher is supportive and SATs levels are good.
It sounds like a good starting point, but ideally it would help to have as wide a range of evidence as possible:
http://www.elevenplusexams.co.uk/appeal ... cation#b11

Quote:
Would it be too much for us to put in academic reports from Reception to Year 6?
I suspect most panels would find a copy of KS1 results, a full year 5 report, and an interim year 6 report, if available, sufficient! :)
There might be an argument for other reports if they provided valuable additional information.

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 Post subject: Re: Appeal
PostPosted: Wed Mar 07, 2012 10:47 am 
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Posts: 117
On your question about appealing to more than one grammar I just wanted to say that we did just that in Essex two years ago.

We lost the appeal to the school we had put first on our CAF form and were very apprehensive about the second appeal. That said, we liked both schools but did genuinely prefer the second. We only put them the way round that we did because our son wanted the first one, we were geographically nearer it so his journey would have been better and he had friends going there. The second one was a longer journey and he would know no-one.

At both appeals we were asked whether we had appealed to any other school and we said yes. At the first one we said that they were no 1 on our CAF form and if successful we would be withdrawing our appeal to the second school. (We would have done this whichever one was first, we were happy with both schools and would not have put ourselves through a second appeal if we had already won one of them). At the second it was a bit more tricky. When asked we said yes and explained why we had applied to the other school emphasising the differences between it and the second school but then said we'd lost on a majority decision which actually then side-tracked them into asking exactly how many more marks we would have needed to get into second school. It was nerve-wracking, you have to build a case to explain why this school is right for your child and it is easy to look as if you are not genuine at this point if you have also appealed elsewhere. Fortunately, they seemed happy and took the questions in another direction after this.

Try and find out what order the appeals will be taken and make sure that you can handle the questions effectively and don't feel it will be a block to you. We did in fact win the second appeal.


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 Post subject: Re: Appeal
PostPosted: Wed Mar 07, 2012 12:31 pm 
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Posts: 136
Thanks Dutchy for the heads up.

People are so very kind on this forum and we are very grateful.


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 Post subject: Re: Appeal
PostPosted: Wed Mar 07, 2012 1:32 pm 
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Joined: Sat Dec 06, 2008 1:41 pm
Posts: 136
I would be grateful if someone could advise on this point regarding multiple appeals:

If we appeal for both schools, would we appear superficial to the panel? What would the panel be thinking, knowing there were other appeals.

Would the response suggested in the above post by Dutchy be viewed negatively?

Wouldn't pointing out differences between the two schools work against us in that we are saying one school is better or vice-versa? We have to be careful with words, but don't quite know how.


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 Post subject: Re: Appeal
PostPosted: Wed Mar 07, 2012 3:11 pm 
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Chai wrote:
I would be grateful if someone could advise on this point regarding multiple appeals:

If we appeal for both schools, would we appear superficial to the panel?
I don't think so. You are allowed to apply for a certain number of schools, not knowing which application will succeed. Similarly, you are expected to submit appeals at more or less the same time, not knowing which ones will be successful.

I suppose there could be a difficulty if you wanted to present two completely different cases, but had the same panel for both! It's unlikely - but see this item:
http://www.elevenplusexams.co.uk/appeal ... school#c23

There might also be a slight difficulty if you're appealing for a lower preference school, but there's no reason why you couldn't have changed your mind about the order of preference. See also the following:
http://www.elevenplusexams.co.uk/appeals/general#a21

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Etienne


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 Post subject: Appeal - evidence
PostPosted: Wed Mar 14, 2012 10:19 pm 
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Joined: Sat Dec 06, 2008 1:41 pm
Posts: 136
I posted an email to the appeal box and would not like to discuss the type of evidence we are going to submit, as it involves a well known after school maths and English programme. I do not wish to be seen as promoting it at all.

I would be grateful if you could please take a look and let us know if submitting evidence of the maths and English worksheets would help as evidence? The child has a passion for maths and literacy is working beyond grade level with this programme.

Many thanks


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 Post subject: Re: Appeal - evidence
PostPosted: Wed Mar 14, 2012 10:50 pm 
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Joined: Mon Dec 12, 2005 5:26 pm
Posts: 7059
1.
Quote:
I would be grateful if you could please take a look and let us know if submitting evidence of the maths and English worksheets would help as evidence? The child has a passion for maths and literacy is working beyond grade level with this programme.
I think it depends whether of not the appeal panel is going to understand exactly what the standard is meant to be.

2. There is no way an appeal panel will write to anyone requesting evidence in support of an appeal.

3. You are legally entitled to everything the school has a record of.
See B20(c):
http://www.elevenplusexams.co.uk/appeal ... cation#b20

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