Go to navigation
It is currently Thu Dec 08, 2016 6:03 am

All times are UTC




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 22 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3  Next
Author Message
PostPosted: Thu Mar 08, 2012 10:06 am 
Offline

Joined: Wed Mar 07, 2012 9:30 pm
Posts: 44
Hi,

This is my first time posting here but I have been reading lots over the past 12 months. 27 years ago my mother was appealing for my place at a Grammar School (didn't get it!), and now I find myself doing the same for my daughter. I'm finding it particulary difficult and wouldn't be going down this route if I had any doubts in my mind of my daughters academic ability. It really is the last thing I want to do.

Anyway, I am reading through Sale Grammars (Trafford) "How to Appeal" booklet and am at the "The How Does The Panel Reach It's Decision" section and am a little concerned that I won't get to the point where I can present my evidence of high academic ability as it seems to state that if there has been a review the panel will consider if it was carried out in a fair, consistent and objective way - and if they say it was then my child will not be eligable for the school.

My daughter was well within the 20 marks so had an automatic review - as is standard for Sale Gramar. I did submit a very last minute, panicky, extenuating circumstances form which wasn't well thought out - but it was so last minute that the results were posted the next morning so I would be amazed at their efficiency if they had read it. However, I do have a very supportive letter from her form tutor who has described her as a superb-all rounder, shows she is already acheiving Level 5's - they are high level 5's but can only state 5. I'm just a bit concerned I'm not going to get the opportunity to prove her high academic ability and suitability for this school.

I really hope your replies will tell me I'm wrong...........

Thanks


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Mar 08, 2012 1:11 pm 
Offline

Joined: Mon Dec 12, 2005 5:26 pm
Posts: 7063
Welcome!

Have you seen the Q&As?
http://www.elevenplusexams.co.uk/appeal ... cation#b18

The best approach is to raise questions about the review, and hope the panel will accept that it was not fair, consistent and objective.

_________________
Etienne


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Mar 08, 2012 2:07 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed Mar 07, 2012 9:30 pm
Posts: 44
Thank you so much for that! I must have missed that section! The questions are currently being printed off ready to be memorised and added to!

With my cynical head on, as no reference is made to academic ability is this just a clever way of them *just* going through the process. Basically, unless a close relative has died or you have a better excuse for not performing well on the day, there are no excuses for having a bad day? We don't care if you are the top performing student in the country, if you didn't get the required score on the day of the test, or if a close relative hasn't died AND you didn't submit it on an extenuating circumstances form then tough, we're not going to listen? It just doesn't seem right.

I've copied and pasted this from the Sale admissions policy 2013 - automatic reviews are now within 15 marks:-

"The Sale Grammar School Entrance Tests consist of a Non Verbal Reasoning Test, Verbal Reasoning Test and a Maths Test, set and standardised by GL Assessments. To qualify for consideration to become a pupil of the school a score of 353 is required. An automatic review is conducted for all candidates who score up to 15 marks below the qualifying score. In the review process the following will be considered:
 The report from the Admissions Officer on actual procedures carried out on the testing day
 The relevant invigilator’s report
 The test score of the pupil and the break down of scores on the standardised papers
 Any special circumstances submitted on the Special Circumstances Form which may have affected the candidate’s performance prior to the test or on the day of the test
The Review Panel will consist of the Headteacher, Deputy Headteacher and a primary teacher with current or recent Year 6 experience. No other representation will be relevant at this stage. All applicants refused admission still have recourse to statutory appeal - see ‘Right of Appeal’ section.

Am thinking that "is it fair not to consider academic evidence from sources other than the entrance exam" as a question - though possibly put a bit more eloquently/tactfully!!!

Thanks again.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Mar 08, 2012 3:09 pm 
Offline

Joined: Mon Dec 12, 2005 5:26 pm
Posts: 7063
I've come across reviews that focus on alternative academic evidence but exclude extenuating circumstances - but not the other way round!
I wonder what is the point of a primary teacher with current or recent Year 6 experience if alternative academic evidence is not going to be considered? (Another question there! :))

It is up to the admission authority how they conduct their review, so long as it is fair, consistent and objective.

However, the new Appeals Code doesn't even mention extenuating circumstances - the focus (for an appeal where there has been no proper review) is on alternative academic evidence!

If there is absolutely no point in time when alternative academic evidence can be considered, there might well be an argument about fairness! :roll:

Whether the panel will accept this argument, I can't say. If not, it could mean a long drawn-out complaint - first going through the academy's complaints procedure, and then if necessary through whatever procedure the Secretary of State is setting up to replace the YPLA.

_________________
Etienne


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Mar 08, 2012 3:25 pm 
Offline

Joined: Thu Sep 24, 2009 10:59 am
Posts: 5922
Perhaps I am being dense, but doesn't the bit which says
Quote:
All applicants refused admission still have recourse to statutory appeal - see ‘Right of Appeal’ section
mean that you can still appeal in the 'normal' way? Surely they are not then entitled to disregard the guidelines of the new appeals code with its focus on academic evidence? Are they? :shock:


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Mar 08, 2012 3:33 pm 
Offline

Joined: Thu Feb 22, 2007 2:29 pm
Posts: 593
Location: Trafford
The Sale appeal is exactly like a "normal" appeal. Academic evidence is what you need, just as in an appeal anywhere else. Don't forget to consider the oversubscription element of the appeal as well. Even though Sale allegedly has spare places at the moment it won't have by the time the appeal is heard.

I think a wise person should prepare to deal with the question of the review, but I don't think it has been an issue in the past.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Mar 08, 2012 3:52 pm 
Offline

Joined: Mon Dec 12, 2005 5:26 pm
Posts: 7063
Amber wrote:
Perhaps I am being dense, but doesn't the bit which says
Quote:
All applicants refused admission still have recourse to statutory appeal - see ‘Right of Appeal’ section
mean that you can still appeal in the 'normal' way?
Not necessarily, Amber, because the Appeals Code itself says "where a local review process has been followed, the panel must only consider whether each child’s review was carried out in a fair, consistent and objective way".

Of course, it is open to the admission authority not to argue that their review was "fair, consistent and objective," at which point it would become a 'normal' appeal.

What TM says is reassuring - what a pity the school doesn't make its position much clearer! The process is stressful enough as it is, without adding further to parents' anxieties.

_________________
Etienne


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Mar 08, 2012 4:34 pm 
Offline

Joined: Thu Sep 24, 2009 10:59 am
Posts: 5922
Interesting Etienne, thank you and sorry for my ignorance... :oops:

It doesn't exactly smack of transparency and fairness though, does it, if the panel consists of 2 members of the senior school management team and a Year 6 teacher who presumably can't add an awful lot if, as you say, there is no evidence for them to go on? Is there no code of good practice for local review panels?

Anyway, sorry to sidetrack your thread It'sme (or It'syou)... And good luck with it. :D


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Mar 08, 2012 4:48 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed Mar 07, 2012 9:30 pm
Posts: 44
Don't apologise. I'm glad it's not just me who's confused! The thought of going to all the trouble to prepare our case only to be told they feel the review was fair before we even get to present it is a little disheartening to say the least!

Your thoughts and contributions certainly confirm a few questions I will need to ask to get past this review system.

To be honest, I don't hold out much hope, I know how oversubscribed the school is. Given my history and my likely emotional state on the day I have had to consider if this really is the right thing to do. It is. Her class teacher has categorically said she should be in Grammar School and I am right to appeal. I'm working on the basis that if I don't try I will have too many "what ifs".

No doubt I will be back with more questions.

Now....if only I could find out just where I stand with regards to the review.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Mar 08, 2012 4:53 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed Mar 07, 2012 9:30 pm
Posts: 44
TraffordMum wrote:
The Sale appeal is exactly like a "normal" appeal. Academic evidence is what you need, just as in an appeal anywhere else. Don't forget to consider the oversubscription element of the appeal as well. Even though Sale allegedly has spare places at the moment it won't have by the time the appeal is heard.

I think a wise person should prepare to deal with the question of the review, but I don't think it has been an issue in the past.


Yes, this is reassuring. Thank you. Do you happen to know if I need a Head Teachers letter as well as a Class Teacher. Her class teacher has been extremely supportive and written a great letter - I don't want to undermine him by going to the Head if I don't need to - actually the Head isn't around at the moment so it will be the Deputy Head.

I'm going along the lines of academic ability and the specialism of the school being visual arts - something my daughter excells in. I need to get my head round oversubscription too!

Thanks again :)


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 22 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3  Next

All times are UTC


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
CALL 020 8204 5060
   
Privacy Policy | Refund Policy | Disclaimer | Copyright © 2004 – 2016