Viewing test papers & Kent appeal

[WillowTheWisp]

The letter confirms the following SAT scores and results

yr 3 (3b,3b,3c Math) yr 4 (3a, 4c, 3b Math) yr 5 (4b, 4b, 4a Math) yr 6 (5c, 4b, 4a Math - 1 mark off 5c which is also mentioned in letter)

June 2011 - VRT 118, NVRT 118
Sept 2011 - Reading age 12y 6m Feb 2012 Reading age 12y 11m

Can I ask if there was a QR CAT test in June 2011? You have given scores for VR & NVR only? It might also be useful to know what each level is for in the SAT's as you have only indicated the maths.

[Ment2B_2000]

Hi WillowTheWisp

Unfortunately I don't know about QR CAT tests in June, I think this is school dependant anyway and our DD's School does not do CAT's (well not to my knowledge at least)

Each Level was broken down: Reading, Writing Maths

Hope that helps

[capers123]

Unfortunately I don't know about QR CAT tests in June, I think this is school dependant anyway and our DD's School does not do CAT's (well not to my knowledge at least)

Oh yes they do! That's what the VRT & NVRT results are.

Most schools never mention these tests to parents, let alone give them the results. They're not a test that is tutored for or practiced, nor do the school get any payment for 'good' results. They do tend to give a pretty reliable indication of raw intelligence, unlike SATS which give an indication of how well the child has been taught (or how well the school can cheat - it does happen). A few schools even provide (upon determined request from the parents) a print-out showing what the child should obtain at SATs - though it tends to be a range (4c to 5b) on a chart rather than a precice 5c, and all the scores are plotted with a 'confidence range'.

CAT scores are one of the few pieces of information that a parent can get from a school that tells them how able their child is rather than how much effort they give, how co-operative they are, how well they're doing for their level of ability - the kind of scores you get in a report. Which I suspect is why schools don't like giving the information out. Parents will start comparing it in the playground, children will start boasting or being bullied, and some parents might actually find out that the child they thought was really bright because the school says they work really hard, is actually of average ability. Private schools can be just as reluctant to give out the information as state schools.

As a parent, I was very interested to get this information as it backed up what one or two teachers let slip in parents evenings (but were never allowed to put in reports) - never told the children what their scores were, though. It can also help when deciding if you should enter your child for the 11+.

[WillowTheWisp]

Ditto what Capers said. The June 2011 'scores' of 118 you gave suggest CAT levels but the QR is missing. I would speak with the HT and ask about it.

The SAT scores are a bit..... all over the place.

At KS1 DD achieved 3, 2a, 3 (which is a firm foundation for DD's learning), then based on the general 2 sub level improvement a year the projection for Y6 would potentially be good enough for 5's across the board. The query I would have is with Writing and Maths seeing no imporvement from Y5 to now, which given it's probably based on 6 months since the previous test I would have hoped to see her going up at least one sub level. What else is quite amazing is the Maths from Y4 to Y5 went up 4 sub levels? Brilliant, but it's a teachers opinion which can be known to be misleading <--- This is why CAT results are better, it's based on the child's raw ability rather than a teachers assessment.

The proof will be in the pudding as they say come SAT's in May but the results may be too late for some of your appeals.

The key point is that only you have this data to hand and you have the option on what to include in your papers, your mission is to pick out the evidence which will prove your DD has suitable ability while not forgetting to tailor your appeal to the individual school. It's not an easy task

[Ment2B_2000]

Capers123/Willow the wisp

well this is veeeerrrrry interesting!!

So first port of call is to find out the QR result from the HT, once I have this information how will I determine/calculate if it is worth including in the appeal, I have read in the Q&A about 95th percentile??

WillowTheWisp thank you for the overall assessment based on the information I have provided. Although I'm not sure where "all over the place" sits in the positive/negative scales

As for the May SATS I understand the appeal hearings are in June....any idea when SAT results are due?

Your last point re: what to include is the most thought provoking. The information I provided above is pretty much the extent of our evidence. along with the original HT appeal sheet, the paragraphs of praise from our DD's teachers and all the info linking each school to our DD's strengths and abilities which we are yet to do . The SATS info is displayed in the HT support letter pretty much exactly as I've laid it out here.

With this in mind I would hope to know if the main consensus out there is whether this data looks good, In my mind I thought it did going through the recommended evidence in the Q&A, now........a little less so

Is there anything glaring that we should ommit? or try to include? Our HT is very supportive and I think would almost rewrite the letter if we asked (of course within reason)

Thank you all for the valuable input

I also wanted throw out there that the HT has offered to attend the appeal and has advised this is strictly a rarity. Will this prove significantly beneficial or not??

[T12ACY]

We had our SAT results at the beginning of July 2 years ago, not sure there is a 'date' for getting them. It would be really good if your primary school were able to confirm a QR Maths score because the June 2011 'scores' do look like the VR & NVR ones. Our school didn't offer up that they did them and it was only when I asked specifically that I got the levels.

It's interesting you mention about the HT rewriting the support letter, we got our HT to do just that so maybe Etienne will be able to comment on what would be most useful?

The recommended evidence in the Q&A is a stark reality check and we found the process exceptionally tough as felt we had to 'over prove' when, had DS just passed the flipping test we wouldn't have been scrutinised! It's a very sobering process..... but as parents we just keep on doing what we can and hope for the best

[Etienne]

I have read in the Q&A about 95th percentile??

I think it adds 'depending on local circumstances'! It could be lower (nationally standardised 11+ in Kent? - top 25/30% selected?). On the other hand, a borderline result might not look convincing to an appeal panel (as Tracy wisely says, there's a feeling you have to 'over-prove') - and, in addition, for highly competitive grammar schools a very superior result might be needed.

I also wanted throw out there that the HT has offered to attend the appeal and has advised this is strictly a rarity. Will this prove significantly beneficial or not??

Yes - it could be very useful.

If you want to send the head's letter to the Appeals Box, we'll see if we can find time to look at it for you.
http://www.elevenplusexams.co.uk/forum/ ... =35&t=9907" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[Ment2B_2000]

It would be really good if your primary school were able to confirm a QR Maths score because the June 2011 'scores' do look like the VR & NVR ones.

This will indeed be my priority tomorrow. Apart of me does wonder why this information was not just made available along with the VR & NVR results. If it was good or exceptional surely it would have been included. I guess I'll request and then report back

It's interesting you mention about the HT rewriting the support letter, we got our HT to do just that so maybe Etienne will be able to comment on what would be most useful?

This makes me feel better, we have already asked him to make some amendments so don't want to be seen as taking liberties, but in the same breath we obviously want to ensure its as strong as it can be staying within the confines of accuracy and not sounding overdone

The recommended evidence in the Q&A is a stark reality check and we found the process exceptionally tough as felt we had to 'over prove' when, had DS just passed the flipping test we wouldn't have been scrutinised!

All I can say to that is AMEN! and we feel exactly the same all this for the sake of 5 marks all we can hope for is a positive outcome

[Ment2B_2000]

I also wanted throw out there that the HT has offered to attend the appeal and has advised this is strictly a rarity. Will this prove significantly beneficial or not??

Yes - it could be very useful.

This is good to hear

If you want to send the head's letter to the Appeals Box, we'll see if we can find time to look at it for you.
http://www.elevenplusexams.co.uk/forum/ ... =35&t=9907" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Thank you for this Etienne, I have taken up your kind offer and sent our HT support letter to the AppealsBox, please review at your convenience.

I look forward to your thoughts.

Many thanks as always for your ongoing assistance

[Etienne]

Thanks for sending in a copy. Just a few observations as I'm short of time.

The head is clearly being very, very supportive, and the first page seems fine - but if you feel he might be open to 'polishing' the letter, then I would very politely suggest:

1) All the non-academic references (bubbly member of the class, school council, etc.) should be taken out.
See the critically important advice Kate's headteacher obtained from the clerk to an appeal panel: http://www.elevenplusexams.co.uk/forum/ ... 35&t=25123" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
I would even be cautious about references to 'hardworking'! The focus needs to be on high academic ability.

2) My feeling is that the letter is rather too long, ideally needs more focus, and that two sides should probably be the maximum. Rather than quoting from one report after another, it would be better to extract succinctly those comments that specifically relate to well-above average achievement/progress in the key academic subjects, and to high academic potential.

3) It would be good to see the name of the grammar school in the concluding sentence - even though it would mean a separate letter for each appeal!

Hope this is of some help.