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PostPosted: Wed Apr 25, 2012 12:25 pm 
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Joined: Wed Apr 25, 2012 11:42 am
Posts: 5
Hi

I'm new to posting so hope I don't inadvertently break any rules!

I am appealing for a place for my son at an oversubscribed school, having been refused on distance. I have just received the appeal date and papers and would be grateful for some advice. The school's statement includes a long list of factors that limit the school's ability to accept more children, running to almost 2 pages, but many of these points seem to be simply repeating those made earlier in the list, although phrasing them slightly differently. This makes it look as if the school has more reasons than it actually has. Is it worth mentioning this at the appeal hearing and, if so, would you mention it at Stage 1 or Stage 2? It's not really a question relating to their case, more of an observation, so I'm not sure it would be appropriate for Stage 1? Although it's about their case and not our reasons for wanting the school, and therefore not really appropriate for Stage 2?!

Also, if I disagree with some of the opinions given in their statement, should I mention this and, if so, at which stage? As my comments on their statement are not really questions, I'm not sure how to proceed.

I'd be grateful for any of your opinions on this. Thanks. :)


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 25, 2012 12:36 pm 
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Joined: Mon Sep 07, 2009 10:14 am
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Welcome to the forum Dinky. I'll try and answer until someone more knowledgeable comes along!
I'm sure if the repetitions are obvious to you they'll be obvious to an appeal panel so I'd definitely not mention them at any stage!
You are certainly entitled to query their evidence. Is there some way that you can turn your statements into questions? Eg if they say that their PAN is 90 and for health and safety reasons eg in the Science lab they cannot accept more- you could look through their old figures and hopefully find a year when they were over PAN as much as they would be if they took your DC and then- having already checked the answer-ask if there has ever been a serious incident as a result of this. Sorry, in a rush, so this probably sounds like nonsense!!
Try to focus on precedents so you can show if they have coped with a number over PAN before they can do so again!
You then need to look at why this particular school is especially suited to your child eg by looking at their specialisms and matching these with proven strengths of your child.
Good luck. :D


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 25, 2012 1:24 pm 
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Joined: Wed Apr 25, 2012 11:42 am
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Thanks ourmaminhavana - it doesn't sound like nonsense!

The point I was wondering about making was that they say it is unlikely any children will move out of the area during the year so any difficulties arising from taking children above PAN are unlikely to be eased during the year. But in previous years they have had successful appeals and, looking at the expected roll numbers from September, each of those years is expected to have fewer children than they would have had in Y7 including the successful appeals. So it seems to me that children are leaving during the year based on previous experience, and therefore difficulties are likely to be eased. Hope this makes sense! But if I try and turn that into a question, it becomes very waffly!

You make a good point about health and safety in science etc - would the school tell me if I rang to ask about any accidents/incidents due to overcrowding?

Thanks very much for your advice.


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 25, 2012 1:55 pm 
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Joined: Mon Dec 12, 2005 5:26 pm
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Welcome from me too!

I agree with everything ourmaminhavana has written.

After the school case you're entitled to ask questions. 'Speeches' would almost certainly not be welcome, but you could easily make a brief observation (such as "Some of the arguments in the school case look a bit repetitive"), followed by "Would you agree?" or "Is that a fair point?"

All matters to do with the school case (and that includes querying or challenging anything in the case) must be raised at stage 1. Stage 2 is entirely about your own case.

I assume you've seen our advice on the two stages?
http://www.elevenplusexams.co.uk/appeal ... -school#c1
http://www.elevenplusexams.co.uk/appeal ... -school#c2

Quote:
The point I was wondering about making was that they say it is unlikely any children will move out of the area during the year so any difficulties arising from taking children above PAN are unlikely to be eased during the year. But in previous years they have had successful appeals and, looking at the expected roll numbers from September, each of those years is expected to have fewer children than they would have had in Y7 including the successful appeals. So it seems to me that children are leaving during the year based on previous experience, and therefore difficulties are likely to be eased. Hope this makes sense! But if I try and turn that into a question, it becomes very waffly!
I doubt that an appeal panel will want to speculate about 'movement out'. However, as the school case itself asserts that it is unlikely any children will move, it would be entirely reasonable for you to ask why numbers in previous years appear to have fallen back.
Quote:
You make a good point about health and safety in science etc - would the school tell me if I rang to ask about any accidents/incidents due to overcrowding?
They ought to - they have a duty under the Code of Practice to assist you:
http://www.elevenplusexams.co.uk/appeal ... school#c26

_________________
Etienne


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 25, 2012 3:23 pm 
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Joined: Wed Apr 25, 2012 11:42 am
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Thanks, Etienne, that's a great help. :)


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