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PostPosted: Wed May 09, 2012 8:16 pm 
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Sally-Anne, Etienne

Its me again.. as much as I like you both I really really wish I wasn't having to post again in the appeals section :(

S-A, you know the heartache of the past few days.. Etienne, I'm sure you remember me from last year and this year! We had a failed appeal for 11+ despite excellent supporting evidence (I thought so :) ), DS took the 12+ and scored 138. We still haven't received his allocation letter (despite the fact it should have arrived on 5th May!) but from the allocation profiles published its very clear that he hasn't got a GS place... hence I'm back here :(

I've read the appeals section (lots of pointers, thanks) and I've put together details of the PAN numbers for past 7 years and tallied this against the GCSE results where I can. My problem is I'm not sure this helps our case or how to use it (1 has been so far under PAN until this year it must have been half empty!) and the second has gone over PAN regularly in past 4 years but I don't have GCSE data. Please can you point me in the best direction on how to use the data? Also, are there any other stats/ data I should be looking for?

BGS school is one of the schools we're appealing for and as DS is straight A's in maths, science and all his current languages in year 7 we'll use that as a reason why he needs to go there (it's maths, science and modern foreign languages specialised school).

Any help/ guidance very gratefully received (even if its just the best place to buy a good cheap bottle of wine :D )

thanks

KT36

PS if DS was a DD he would have been offered a place at BHS :mrgreen: should I appeal on sexism grounds??? (joking :evil: )


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PostPosted: Wed May 09, 2012 10:51 pm 
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Welcome back! :)

Quote:
1 has been so far under PAN until this year it must have been half empty!
If it's now full, I don't think that will help!

Quote:
and the second has gone over PAN regularly in past 4 years but I don't have GCSE data. Please can you point me in the best direction on how to use the data?
Go to C1 and scroll down to C1b(iii).
(You don't have to supply the GCSE data - if the question is asked, then the onus is on them to come up with evidence that there really was prejudice in previous years.)

Most cases are won or lost at stage 2. Don't spend too much time on the school case - best to keep the focus on your own case.

See also:
How to win an oversubscription appeal?
and How not to win an oversubscription appeal!

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Etienne


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PostPosted: Thu May 10, 2012 1:10 pm 
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Etienne wrote:
Quote:
1 has been so far under PAN until this year it must have been half empty!
If it's now full, I don't think that will help!


I know, I was just stating frustration :evil:

I'm starting to pull together all the information needed. Our reasons for the 2 GS we'll appeal for will be quite different.

In the stage 1, is it the actual school saying they can't take any more pupils or is it LEA at the hearing (remember my bad experience with an LEA rep??). Also, i know each case in stage 2 is on its own merits, but would a child who has been offered NO GS place be looked on more favourably than a child who has another GS place but prefers the GS being appealed for?

By the way... still no letter from BCC saying whether DS has a GS place or not, so still going by the allocation data in which its clear we're way outside the limit. :cry:

KT


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PostPosted: Thu May 10, 2012 5:15 pm 
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Quote:
In the stage 1, is it the actual school saying they can't take any more pupils or is it LEA at the hearing (remember my bad experience with an LEA rep??).
If the school is its own admission authority (which I think all the Bucks grammar schools may now be), then it will be the school. However, it's possible that the school will engage a Bucks LA rep. to present the case on its behalf!

Quote:
Also, i know each case in stage 2 is on its own merits, but would a child who has been offered NO GS place be looked on more favourably than a child who has another GS place but prefers the GS being appealed for?
Cases are not compared to begin with - the test in each case is quite simply whether or not it outweighs the prejudice to the school.

However, if the panel is contemplating allowing more appeals than it feels the school could cope with, then it would have to compare cases and decide which ones to allow.

It's entirely up to the individual panel how much weight they give a particular argument. I think there could well be considerable sympathy for a child without any GS place at all - but any overwhelming social or medical reasons for needing a place at one GS rather than another could also elicit considerable sympathy!

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PostPosted: Fri May 11, 2012 9:32 am 
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Thanks Etienne... I so hope we get a sympathetic panel!

Quick one... would it harm our case to visit the GS again (we visited previoulsy with DS before 11+) to talk to school andsee their view on oversubscription etc in general (obvioulsy not hassle the school). We are in quite a tough position as there is only 1 GS in catchment for DS and the next closest is 9.5 miles away and OOC...

thanks

KT36


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PostPosted: Fri May 11, 2012 4:30 pm 
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There's nothing to stop you talking to the grammar school, although I have some reservations (stage 2 is what you should be focusing on).

The only thing forbidden - for fairly obvious reasons - is that the school being appealed for cannot provide support for any appellant at a hearing:
Quote:
2.13 Panels must not allow representatives of schools to support individual appeals for places at their school at the hearing itself, or by providing letters of support for appellants. Such support could create conflicts of interest and unfairness to other appellants.

It's up to the school, of course, whether they wish to talk to parents about a prospective appeal!

The only other point I would make is that appeals are more often than not dealt with by just one person at a very senior level within the school (e.g. the headteacher). It's possible that the head of year or whoever you find yourself talking to may not know much about the school case.

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PostPosted: Sat May 12, 2012 4:25 pm 
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Thanks Etienne. Our letter arrived this morning (yes a week late!!) so at least we now know for certain what we just thought.. that DS has not been offered any GS place. At least we now have the form to actually appeal...


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