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 Post subject: somber
PostPosted: Fri Jun 22, 2012 12:28 pm 
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Posts: 14
Dear sir or madam
Like many parents on this site I am very sad, I live out of county but only just over the border, my son passed the 11+ with a very good score but was not offered a place and we also lost two appeals at two schools.
I have included the two school refusal letter’s asking for your advice I’m a single father trying to do the best for his son and I’m dispirit to get him in to the school that is best for him.

I thought I had very strong reasons for my son to be at the school including a Fabulous letter from his head teacher, the single parent and getting back to work, my older brother lives behind the school (500m away) this would allow me to work more hours as he would go there after school, very strong academically, sats level 5’s in year five maximum Suffolk reading test maximum Nelson spelling test putting him at least two years ahead of his age ( test’s taken at the age of 10-02 the list goes on, the appeal panel also did not mention anything about the Sibling aspect although I mentioned it at the appeal I did not push it as my meaning of the word is (relation by blood) I now understand that this is not correct in modern school protocol, yet none of the appeal panel advised me on it?


After receiving my appeal decision letter I made contact with the school and secondary admissions to clarify the sibling section,
My partner of five years has a boy already at this first appeal school, I have talked with secondary admissions and there take on this is! My partner lives just up the road from me at the moment and we house share and have done for five years they stay with me we stay with them, it has to be this way as my partner is going through a very long drawn out divorce and that is dictating us being able to sell our properties and buy one larger one.
Secondary admissions said that in this situation they would tell the school that, they could move my son to the head of the waiting list.
I rang the school talked with the heads PA also the lady that sort’s out all the admissions, she said if that is there answer she could not see there being a problem, but they would have to check with the same lady (I gave them her name) and she said she would also need a letter from me.
I hand delivered a letter from my partner and another from myself explaining the situation ten o’clock the next day.
The day following I had a letter from the head saying no simply stating has to be under the same roof.
I would also like to point out that another boy from my school got in and is double the distance away.
And finely the appeal panel also made the school put another ten children on the waiting list in front of my son that ether had not taken or not passed the 11+?

Any help would be greatly appreciated I’m now lost on what to do.
With kind regards
Sombre




Dear Mr (edited to remove name)
ADMISSION APPEAL - not sure if i should put name of school

I am writing to confirm the decision of the panel. As you know your appeal was heard in two stages, and the first stage group meeting for all the parents the panel concluded that the school could admit an additional 32 pupils and this number was as many as the school could sustain without causing serious prejudice. The panel then went to hear your individual second stage appeal, and decided that the Admission Authority should not be required to offer your child a place at the above named school.

The panel then went on to consider very carefully your reasons for requesting a place at the school including that ***** has been assessed as suitable for admission to a grammar school and ************** is the best school for him. The family links in the area which as a single parent will give support on a daily basis and that he would be better placed in a school with pupils he knows. However, it was felt that these were not sufficiently strong for it to make an exception in this case. In the light of these considerations the panel decided that the Admission Authority had shown that it could not offer a place at the school without causing prejudice to the efficient provision of education or use of resources.
In reaching its decision the panel took into account the points you made at the appeal hearing but decided that based on their mitigating circumstances other applicants had had a greater claim to a place.

I know you will be disappointed that your appeal was not upheld. Nevertheless, the members of the panel wish your family every success in the future.


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 Post subject: Re: somber
PostPosted: Fri Jun 22, 2012 7:47 pm 
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Joined: Mon Dec 12, 2005 5:26 pm
Posts: 7059
Welcome, somber - very sorry to hear your news.

1. Could you tell me the status of this school? (I assume it's either an academy or foundation.)

2. When you filled in your application for a place there, how did you answer the question "Is there a sibling already at the school?"

3. Somewhere, in the admission rules for the school, there ought to be a definition of what they mean by 'sibling'. For example, they might possibly say "One of two or more individuals who have one or more parents in common, or any other child (including an adopted child) who permanently lives at the same address and for whom the parent also has parental responsibility." Can you find the definition used for admission to this school, and tell me the exact wording?

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Etienne


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 Post subject: Somber
PostPosted: Thu Jun 28, 2012 3:21 pm 
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Joined: Fri Jun 22, 2012 8:45 am
Posts: 14
Hello Etienne, Thank you for getting back to me. 1: The school is Grant maintained since about 1994. 2: I did not put there was a 'Sibling' as my understanding of the word was blood brother or sister. 3: I can't find any info on the school sibling policy, But I rang secondary admissions in Maidstone I explained to the lady that I and my partner had been together for five years and her son attended the school, I then told her that we house share We stay at hers and they stay with us, the reason for this is until my partners divorce is over (it's been six years so far) we are unable to sell both properties and buy one together, The children have been together for five years same junior school as well, my partners other son will also go to the grammar school he is doing 11+ this September, The lady told me that this would be down to the school and that if they wished they could move my son the front of the list.
I talked with the Heads PA at the school she said I would have to put it in writing and she would have to confirm with secondary admissions, The next morning I hand delivered two letters one from me one from my partner.
The following day I had a letter from the head saying.
Under part b of our over subscription criteria reference is made to "current famiily association". This clearly states" ............... this means children who live as a brother or sister in the same house to be considered sibling under the over subscription rules.
Also when the appeal panel asked about friends at the school I told them he has friends already at the school along with the son of my partner of five years.

Regards
Somber

Have merged the thread to keep all Somer's info about the appeal in the same place - Herman


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 Post subject: Re: Somber
PostPosted: Thu Jun 28, 2012 4:20 pm 
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Joined: Mon Dec 12, 2005 5:26 pm
Posts: 7059
Thanks, Herman.
somber wrote:
The following day I had a letter from the head saying.
Under part b of our over subscription criteria reference is made to "current famiily association". This clearly states" ............... this means children who live as a brother or sister in the same house to be considered sibling under the over subscription rules.
So, can you confirm that you have found this? The oversubscription criteria ought to be in the school prospectus, on their website, and included with the appeal papers. The way in which they define 'sibling' is crucial.

I'm concerned to see that the decision letter does not state whether the panel considered the admission arrangements to be lawful and to have been correctly applied. Can you confirm whether a copy of the oversubscription criteria was available with the appeal papers (including the definition of 'sibling')?

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Etienne


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 Post subject: Re: somber
PostPosted: Thu Jun 28, 2012 11:27 pm 
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Joined: Fri Jun 22, 2012 8:45 am
Posts: 14
There is nothing on the school web site under admissions regarding sibling, but there is a small paragraph on the back of the Kent county council admission appeal-secondary school sheet that was sent to me with the dates of the admission appeal. Headed: Current Family Association-
It is worded as follow: A brother or sister attending the school when the child starts. In this context brother or sister means children who live as brother or sister in the same house, Including natural brothers or sisters, adopted siblings, stepbrothers or sisters and foster brothers and sisters.

To me this all reads as if you have to be married and you have taken the roll of parent?
I did explain to the panel and the school that we have to run to small houses untill my partners divorce is sorted, unfortunatly this puts us in a position of staying at each others house. this was taken as ok by secondary admission but the school said no?
With kind regards
Somber


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 Post subject: Re: somber
PostPosted: Sun Jul 01, 2012 7:30 am 
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Joined: Mon Dec 12, 2005 5:26 pm
Posts: 7059
Dear Somber

Could you look up the school here:
http://www.kent.gov.uk/education_and_le ... _2012.aspx
(Go to the section "The voluntary-aided, foundation and academy schools listed below are their own admissions authority .....
A-R Secondary
S-Z Secondary
")

We need to know whether the school uses the same definition of 'sibling' there.

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Etienne


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 Post subject: Re: somber
PostPosted: Mon Jul 02, 2012 8:03 pm 
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Joined: Fri Jun 22, 2012 8:45 am
Posts: 14
Hi Etienne
The school is not listed is there a way i can send you the school name without it being seen?
Regards
Somber


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 Post subject: Re: somber
PostPosted: Mon Jul 02, 2012 8:13 pm 
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Joined: Mon Dec 12, 2005 5:26 pm
Posts: 7059
Please send an email to the Appeals Box:
viewtopic.php?f=35&t=9907

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Etienne


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 Post subject: Re: somber
PostPosted: Tue Jul 03, 2012 4:48 pm 
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Joined: Mon Dec 12, 2005 5:26 pm
Posts: 7059
I've checked, and it appears that the school in question is a community school, so the definition of sibling is the one used by KCC: "Current Family Association - a brother or sister attending the school when the child starts. In this context brother or sister means children who live as brother or sister in the same house, including natural brothers or sisters, adopted siblings, stepbrothers or sisters and foster brothers and sisters."
The definition, and the list of schools to which it applies, can be found here:
https://shareweb.kent.gov.uk/Documents/ ... 0Aug11.pdf

Although the admission arrangements seem to be in order, I am still weighing up whether there might be any possible grounds for a complaint. Could you answer a few more questions for me?

Quote:
the appeal panel also did not mention anything about the Sibling aspect although I mentioned it at the appeal I did not push it
What exactly did you say?

Quote:
The family links in the area which as a single parent will give support on a daily basis
Do you think this refers specifically to your older brother who can provide after-school care? Or might it also refer to your partner?

Quote:
he would be better placed in a school with pupils he knows
Was this referring specifically to your partner's son(s) - or to other friends?

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Etienne


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 Post subject: Re: somber
PostPosted: Tue Jul 03, 2012 11:22 pm 
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Joined: Fri Jun 22, 2012 8:45 am
Posts: 14
I explained to the panel that my son had friends already at the school, and one of them was my partners son, I then gave them a short outline about them going to the same junior school together and they have been together for over five years, at this time i believed that sibling was blood related. also my parteners other son is taking his 11+ this september and will get in under the sibling rule.
The part about my brother helping, I need his help so I can get back to work I cant ask my partner she works and her childrens father has them at reguler times, I do not have anyone apart from my brother, if my son attends the secondary school he has been offered it is 14+ miles in the wrong direction for my brother to help, But my brother live's at the end of the playing field to the Grammar school about 400 to 600m away,


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