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 Post subject: The hardest part
PostPosted: Wed Jun 20, 2007 10:00 am 
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Joined: Tue Jun 19, 2007 2:10 pm
Posts: 19
Location: dorset
hi
Many thanks for all your input . The hardest thing to come to terms with is
the teachers from primary school have known your child for seven years give high recomendation and in our case appeal panel hurried the academic evidence and seemed to make up there minds in ten minutes it is hard to see fair play in all this. At the moment I feel I should take it further son still unaware but do I have the courage?
lucy

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 20, 2007 11:48 am 
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Joined: Wed Mar 07, 2007 12:10 pm
Posts: 18
Location: Bexley
Hi Lucy,

I'm so sorry to hear your feel you did not have a fair hearing.

If you think they did not take into account the academic evidence then I think you should request the clerks notes.

thinking of you and best wishes,


BM


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jun 20, 2007 11:51 am 
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Joined: Mon Jan 22, 2007 1:22 pm
Posts: 36
Location: Lincolnshire
I think the hardest thing to come to terms with is the fact that it isn't fair. we had an unsuccessful appeal at the end of April and it is taking me some time to come to terms with it. i know I'm only going to get over the whole experience when my son starts his alternative school in september and i see him settle in and enjoy his secondary education. we've gone for the private sector as it was the only thing that seemed to make this whole horrible experience better. we will have to make various life changes and the thought of all the money we will be spending over the years is very daunting but i wont have anyone telling me what school my child is going to without my having a sayso in the decision. my husband and i feel in control of our child's very important education and that makes us feel better. we've gone to the ombudsman not with the hope of getting a reappeal but we wanted to highlight certain parts of the appeal process we were not happy with. if you feel going to the ombudsman will make you ultimately feel better then do it. Find the courage from somewhere. it's all very well people telling you to put it behind you and move forward but we all do that at our own pace. go with your feelings of sadness because you have had a big loss and it is very sad when it happens to our children. i read a saying recentely which hit home with me 'the more you plan, the harder destiny will hit you'. that was so true of me. i put my all into the appeal process for six months - lived and breathed it - but at the end of the day i couldn't alter destiny. my thoughts are with you and do pm me if you need to for any reason.

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 20, 2007 5:07 pm 
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Joined: Sat Apr 28, 2007 5:39 am
Posts: 17
Location: Lincolnshire
Hi Lucy

I too had a unsuccessful appeal - we had the most horrible experience and I ended up in tears after the hearing knowing full well the panel had made their minds up already. I had enormous support from people on here and armed with that advice had another appeal for a different GS (totally different experience I hasten to add) and won a place for my son, the circumstances were quite unique to us but the strength gained from this website knowing you are not alone in this appeal minefield really helped. I have taken up with the ombudsman our first case to highlight issues that surrounded the 1st appeal mainly so these things cannot happen to another parent and child, I so understand what you are going through as I could not bring myself to tell my son that I had let him down (I felt personally that I had not been good enough on the day to get him a place), which of course is not true - we are all here trying to do what is best for our children and as their parents we know them better than anyone. I do hope you get the answers you need if you dont try you may end up kicking yourself later. Good luck to you and your family.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jun 20, 2007 9:57 pm 
Louise wrote:
I think the hardest thing to come to terms with is the fact that it isn't fair. we had an unsuccessful appeal at the end of April and it is taking me some time to come to terms with it. i know I'm only going to get over the whole experience when my son starts his alternative school in september and i see him settle in and enjoy his secondary education. we've gone for the private sector as it was the only thing that seemed to make this whole horrible experience better. we will have to make various life changes and the thought of all the money we will be spending over the years is very daunting but i wont have anyone telling me what school my child is going to without my having a sayso in the decision. my husband and i feel in control of our child's very important education and that makes us feel better. we've gone to the ombudsman not with the hope of getting a reappeal but we wanted to highlight certain parts of the appeal process we were not happy with. if you feel going to the ombudsman will make you ultimately feel better then do it. Find the courage from somewhere. it's all very well people telling you to put it behind you and move forward but we all do that at our own pace. go with your feelings of sadness because you have had a big loss and it is very sad when it happens to our children. i read a saying recentely which hit home with me 'the more you plan, the harder destiny will hit you'. that was so true of me. i put my all into the appeal process for six months - lived and breathed it - but at the end of the day i couldn't alter destiny. my thoughts are with you and do pm me if you need to for any reason.



I absolutely agree Louise, the system is not fair and the scope for injustice in this process is huge, and I think it is this that parents and children alike find so hard to take. The frustration is immense, I too have taken the issue to the ombudsman, but I know full well they will do nothing - proving mal-administration is nigh on impossible, they know it we know it, but I've written 2 extensive letters and at least it's something i Can show my son in years to come and say 'I ****** tried son'.

Use the Summer to get over it, move on to the next chapter, and try and make the most of what you've got. You will do because you have too.

All the best


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jun 21, 2007 10:03 am 
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Joined: Sun May 13, 2007 8:03 pm
Posts: 1827
Location: Gloucestershire
North Kent Dad wrote:
the system is not fair and the scope for injustice in this process is huge


Would you still be saying that had your appeal succeeded?

We (panel members) have to be fair. But we have to be fair not just to your child and you yourself, but also to the children who passed the exam and already have a place, and to the teachers in the school.

For instance, if we allowed a lot more appeals out of sympathy to you, then the class size might go up to 36. This would not be fair to any of the children, and if you were a teacher, would you want to teach a class of 36? If we allowed appeals children who had a problem on the day, but were obvious not as able as the children who passed, then would it be fair on them to let them struggle at the bottom of the class when they could be flying in a non-selective school?

We try and make the system as fair as we can for all concerned. Honest.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jun 21, 2007 11:20 am 
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Joined: Fri May 11, 2007 10:13 am
Posts: 41
Capers, I think everyone's point is that simply the system is not fair in that clever children sometimes to miss out on a GS place because of one morning's work - whatever the reasons might be. Fair enough if your child has been average all through primary school, but hard to bear if they have performed higher for years than children who do pass on the day. Hard to find an alternative way to select though I might add.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jun 21, 2007 5:47 pm 
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Joined: Mon Dec 12, 2005 5:26 pm
Posts: 7059
lucy wrote:
teachers from primary school have known your child for seven years give high recommendation and in our case appeal panel ..... seemed to make up their minds in ten minutes ......

Dear Lucy

Unfortunately there is a lack of consistency with primary school recommendations. Some are realistic, some are too harsh, some are too lenient.

There is also the problem that, while schools usually have a good knowledge of the standard of classroom work, they are not so good at judging performance in the 11+.

In my local authority, primary school heads have to state in advance of the 11+ the expected range of marks (the pass mark is 121, and heads are required to say whether the pupil is expected to score 131-141, 121-130, 110-120, etc.). I would guess that their accuracy averages out at around 50%!

lucy wrote:
At the moment I feel I should take it further

Just a cautionary word: I'm afraid there's no point in taking things further just because you disagree with the panel's decision. The panel needs to have done something wrong, e.g. not following the correct procedures, or failing to consider your evidence. See the Q&As, section D.

It might be worth trying to get hold of the clerk's notes to see among other things whether - in the panel's decision making - there was any mention of the points you regarded as important. (They were entitled to disagree with these points, but not to ignore them.) See:
www.elevenplusexams.co.uk/forum/11plus/ ... otes#30199

Regards

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Etienne


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 Post subject: The hardest part
PostPosted: Thu Jun 21, 2007 7:19 pm 
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Joined: Tue Jun 19, 2007 2:10 pm
Posts: 19
Location: dorset
Dear Etienne
Thank you for your point of view I really do value it I am not complaining just because I disagree with the decision it is probably to late to help my son I want to draw attention to some points which could possibly help other appellants in the future. However I am well aware it is a difficult process and no system is fool proof. One complaint is time length .results 2nd march very unclear info appeal had to be made by 20th april then heard nothing despite several phone calls untill begginning of june.
the clerk to the appeal panel dealing with phone calls and all paper work is also clerk to the governors! his brother is chairman on the appeal panel? my academic evidence given to me by yr6 form teacher practice sats and vr tests were not understood by the panel they asked me if they were tests I had done at home with my son lots more I am still working through my notes I am sure I if you dont mind I will have a lot more questions. best wishes and many thanks lucy

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 Post subject: Re: The hardest part
PostPosted: Thu Jun 21, 2007 8:31 pm 
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Joined: Mon Dec 12, 2005 5:26 pm
Posts: 7059
lucy wrote:
Dear Etienne
Thank you for your point of view I really do value it I am not complaining just because I disagree with the decision it is probably to late to help my son I want to draw attention to some points which could possibly help other appellants in the future. However I am well aware it is a difficult process and no system is fool proof. One complaint is time length .results 2nd march very unclear info appeal had to be made by 20th april then heard nothing despite several phone calls untill begginning of june.
the clerk to the appeal panel dealing with phone calls and all paper work is also clerk to the governors! his brother is chairman on the appeal panel? my academic evidence given to me by yr6 form teacher practice sats and vr tests were not understood by the panel they asked me if they were tests I had done at home with my son lots more I am still working through my notes I am sure I if you dont mind I will have a lot more questions. best wishes and many thanks lucy

Dear Lucy

The ombudsman would not be happy that the clerk to the governors was also clerking appeals - and that his brother chairs the appeals! I believe that he would criticise these arrangements, but cannot say whether he would conclude that they led to an injustice.

I am also concerned to hear that the panel appeared not to understand your evidence.

Worth pursuing, I think .......

Let me know if I can do anything to help.

Best regards

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