Should we Appeal (Bucks)? If so, on what grounds?

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EmzMum
Posts: 45
Joined: Fri Nov 09, 2012 1:45 pm

Grounds for Circumventing the FCO Rule?

Post by EmzMum »

I initially emailed Bucks CC admissions dept requesting details of how to lodge an appeal (clearly stating that we would prefer an IAP to an SRP). They responded with details of how to apply for an SRP only. I again emailed them thanking them for the details of how to lodge a review but said that, however, (for various reasons I won't bore you with) we would prefer to have our appeal heard by an IAP rather than an SRP. I had no reply to this final email so I telephoned the admissions dept who told me that we HAD to have an SRP. If I was not happy with their decision we could then go to an IAP.

We are now in the position of having to go to an IAP after an unsuccessful review. I noticed upon reading the appeal guidelines that, because we have had an SRP, the panel will only consider whether the review was 'fair, consistent and objective' and the IAP will not be the full hearing implied by Bucks CC when I initially inquired. I also notice that on page 7 of their guide there is provision for how to deal with appeals that have not been subject to a selection review (of course, this is a 'proper' IAP and the FCO rules do not come into effect in these cases). As such a provision exists, I am assuming that we should have had the option to not go ahead with an SRP and instead wait for an IAP later on.

I feel that we may have been deprived of our right to an IAP by being wrongly informed that I must pursue an SRP first. On that basis, may I have grounds for claiming that I am now being unfairly subjected to the FCO rules (because my wish for an IAP was wrongly refused) and should therefore have the opportunity to have our case heard without being subjected to the FCO criteria?

Many Thanks!!
Etienne
Posts: 8978
Joined: Mon Dec 12, 2005 6:26 pm

Re: Should we Appeal (Bucks)? If so, on what grounds?

Post by Etienne »

We are told that a number of parents were instructed on the phone that they had to go through a review - and that when they asked for this to be confirmed in writing, there was no response.
EmzMum wrote:I feel that we may have been deprived of our right to an IAP by being wrongly informed that I must pursue an SRP first. On that basis, may I have grounds for claiming that I am now being unfairly subjected to the FCO rules (because my wish for an IAP was wrongly refused) and should therefore have the opportunity to have our case heard without being subjected to the FCO criteria?
It looks as if you (and others) may have been misled. If an appeal panel were to uphold FCO ('fair, consistent & objective') in these circumstances, I think you might have grounds for referring your case to the EFA, and if necessary to the DfE.
I initially emailed Bucks CC admissions dept requesting details of how to lodge an appeal (clearly stating that we would prefer an IAP to an SRP). They responded with details of how to apply for an SRP only. I again emailed them thanking them for the details of how to lodge a review but said that, however, we would prefer to have our appeal heard by an IAP rather than an SRP. I had no reply to this final email so I telephoned the admissions dept who told me that we HAD to have an SRP. If I was not happy with their decision we could then go to an IAP.
I suggest you include this in your appeal submission, and attach a copy of the email you sent.

There are numerous other grounds on which the review process might be challenged.
See (d)4:
http://www.elevenplusexams.co.uk/forum/ ... 12&t=31030" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Etienne
EmzMum
Posts: 45
Joined: Fri Nov 09, 2012 1:45 pm

Re: Should we Appeal (Bucks)? If so, on what grounds?

Post by EmzMum »

Thanks Etienne, that's exactly what I will do. I have emailed Bucks CC asking for details on the decision, hoping that I may either work out how they came to the decision (because the decision letter was absolutely no help!) or challenge it on FCO grounds and this was the reply:

The 13 Buckinghamshire grammar schools have asked the local authority (Buckinghamshire County Council) to undertake the administration and co-ordination of the paperwork associated with the review process (including the sending of the decision letter on behalf of the clerks). Central to the process is a decision made on behalf of the grammar schools by a panel of head teachers (one primary head teacher and two grammar school head teachers). Their decision was made in the light of the VRTS achieved and the evidence provided to you to the Review Panel

Whilst the Council has supported the grammar schools in the review process the Council's role did not include making any decision with regard to the qualification or otherwise in any case. The Council's role was limited to facilitating the process by scheduling the meetings, collating the parental paperwork in advance of the meeting, providing the papers to the panels and sending out the decision letters on behalf of the clerks following the meetings, therefore I cannot offer reasons behind the decision. Where there were specific reasons that the panel wanted to be noted in the letter then the clerk indicated this. In the absence of any specific reasons being included in the letter, the panel's reason for refusal was that, having considered the academic evidence supplied and any extenuating circumstances provided by you, they were not sufficiently satisfied by the evidence that the pupil should qualify for grammar school.

I appreciate that this decision will have been disappointing to you and should you wish you may appeal, at the appropriate point to a preferred grammar school. Details will be provided on our website at the point school place allocations are made public on 1 March 2013. The review paperwork submitted in each case would then be provided to an individual school's Independent Appeal Panel.


I then asked for the clerk's notes and they relied with this:

We acknowledge receipt of your request for the Clerk's notes and will respond as soon as possible.


Since then (27th Feb), I've heard nothing.

On another note, my DD is very good at and keen on science. She is a level 5 at the moment and the school she is appealing for has a science specialism. Should I mention this in the 'reasons for wanting the school' section?
Etienne
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Joined: Mon Dec 12, 2005 6:26 pm

Re: Should we Appeal (Bucks)? If so, on what grounds?

Post by Etienne »

Since then (27th Feb), I've heard nothing.
We've yet to hear of a single parent who has succeeded in getting sight of the clerk's notes. :roll:

It may be significant that the headteachers' manual makes no mention at all of the clerk's contemporaneous notes. It says only that "The Clerk to the Selection Review Panel will record the review decision for each child on an individual pro forma".
(The information on this pro-forma appears to be minimal!)

Contrast this with an appeal where - in the event of an investigation - the very first thing the ombudsman or EFA would expect to see are adequate contemporaneous notes, showing whether the correct procedures were followed, and how the panel arrived at their decision in the particular case.
On another note, my DD is very good at and keen on science. She is a level 5 at the moment and the school she is appealing for has a science specialism. Should I mention this in the 'reasons for wanting the school' section?
Yes - but they may argue that funding for specialist status has been ended. If so, you could respond that they must have built up resources in this area which still exist, and must still have a lot of expertise.
You should also check to see whether they are still 'advertising' their specialism in the school prospectus or on their website.
Etienne
EmzMum
Posts: 45
Joined: Fri Nov 09, 2012 1:45 pm

Re: Should we Appeal (Bucks)? If so, on what grounds?

Post by EmzMum »

Oh dear! So the fact there are no adequate notes could in itself be a challenge to the FCO rule? If Bucks CC know full well there are no notes why would they acknowledge my request rather than say there are none? Maybe hoping we'll just give up and/or forget about it!

Well, we have taken a bashing from this system (as have many others it seems) so I feel that (if I have good grounds) it's only fair they take one too :lol:

I have checked and they are still advertising their science specialism. I took a quick print screen just in case it disappears before the appeal date!

Thank you for your advice Etienne, it is greatly appreciated. Now just to cross fingers (again) and wait for the response. On a positive note, now my DD has started her new school they have said they would be willing to fully support her appeal. She is now level 6 in English and has increased 2 sub levels in one term in maths. That, plus her level 5 in science will hopefully look positive. Now she has 2 schools (her old one did the SR) who are supporting her as grammar school material, which is just great.

How much help it will be in practice, however...who knows??? To say I have absolutely no expectations is an understatement!
Etienne
Posts: 8978
Joined: Mon Dec 12, 2005 6:26 pm

Re: Should we Appeal (Bucks)? If so, on what grounds?

Post by Etienne »

EmzMum wrote:If Bucks CC know full well there are no notes why would they acknowledge my request rather than say there are none? Maybe hoping we'll just give up and/or forget about it!
It seems inconceivable that there were no notes taken at the time. Perhaps they're working on a standard response.
(The message you quoted further above is a stock response that a number of parents have now received.)
Well, we have taken a bashing from this system (as have many others it seems) so I feel that (if I have good grounds) it's only fair they take one too :lol:
To be fair, I think Admissions are in a somewhat difficult position because they're managing a process they are not ultimately in charge of.
Although all the grammar schools have signed up to this system and are responsible, it wouldn't surprise me if some aren't fully aware of everything being done in their name.
I have checked and they are still advertising their science specialism. I took a quick print screen just in case it disappears before the appeal date!
Very wise!
Thank you for your advice Etienne, it is greatly appreciated. Now just to cross fingers (again) and wait for the response. On a positive note, now my DD has started her new school they have said they would be willing to fully support her appeal. She is now level 6 in English and has increased 2 sub levels in one term in maths. That, plus her level 5 in science will hopefully look positive. Now she has 2 schools (her old one did the SR) who are supporting her as grammar school material, which is just great.
How much help it will be in practice, however...who knows??? To say I have absolutely no expectations is an understatement!
Appeals are unpredictable - but at least they're independent and reasonably transparent. :)
Etienne
EmzMum
Posts: 45
Joined: Fri Nov 09, 2012 1:45 pm

Re: Should we Appeal (Bucks)? If so, on what grounds?

Post by EmzMum »

I realise that no one is really at fault here. It's a new system and I actually feel quite sorry for admissions; especially if there are other Mums like me who just bug them for this and that!!

This is true. As I said, fingers crossed! I am currently trying to decide whether we should spend the family holiday money on an EP report. Oh, the wonderful decision I get to make. I KNEW being a grown up would be fun :roll:

Even if I do decide to spend it, looking at the cost I'll need to conjure up another couple of hundred pounds from somewhere. Not only a grown up...a magical grown up :lol:
EmzMum
Posts: 45
Joined: Fri Nov 09, 2012 1:45 pm

Re: Should we Appeal (Bucks)? If so, on what grounds?

Post by EmzMum »

Dear Etienne,

Thank you for your advice! You're quite right, I do go on quite a bit! :lol:

I could not PM you back but wanted to share what it says in the code in relation to the point you bought up. I think I have misunderstood what it is saying upon re-reading but maybe I should include something minus the reference to the HR Act?:

"The Human Rights Act 1998 confers a right of access to education. This right does not extend to securing a place at a particular school. However, admission authorities and appeal panels need to consider parents’ reasons for expressing a preference when they make admission decisions and when making decisions on appeals. These reasons might include, for example, the parents’ rights to ensure that their child’s education conforms to their own religious or philosophical convictions (as far as is compatible with the provision of efficient instruction and the avoidance of unreasonable public expenditure)".

What do you think?

EmzMum
EmzMum
Posts: 45
Joined: Fri Nov 09, 2012 1:45 pm

Re: Should we Appeal (Bucks)? If so, on what grounds?

Post by EmzMum »

Sorry, just add: I have finally recieved the clerk's 'notes'. Not much on there, as expected!

The clerk has noted that 'the HT recommendation was not made prior but after the result'. I don't see how they can use this as evidence against my DD as we lived OOC at the time and only Bucks heads make recommendations prior to the 11+. They also noted that it was 'not particularly supportive'. I was worried that her old head had written the recommendation very much like a school report. Saying how she is doing in each subject, rather than a recommendation per se. He did give her a 1/2 for academic potential and a 1/2 for effort (Yes, he did actually put 1/2 rather than a firm '1' or '2'. I would have challenged this but he'd already written it all up in ink! It may be that he did not read the HT guidance notes. I did say he should maybe look them up but it's possible he didn't :roll:

They have also noted her maths 'problem'. Only predicted 4a. Fair point, but she is now working at 4a and her maths teacher is confident that by the time she takes her SATs she will at least be a 5c. Since she has been at her new school she has really progressed well ("rapid progress to quote her new schools VERY supportive recommendation).

The clerk also notes that there is 'no evidence a high performing child'. I think that's slightly unfair considering she is predicted level 5s for her other subjects (now level 6 in reading according to mock SATs taken at her new school. Also, her old HT noted that she had scored 141+ in VR CATs. I would say that IS evidence of high ability. To say there is NO evidence is a bit strong, no??
Etienne
Posts: 8978
Joined: Mon Dec 12, 2005 6:26 pm

Re: Should we Appeal (Bucks)? If so, on what grounds?

Post by Etienne »

EmzMum wrote:admission authorities and appeal panels need to consider parents’ reasons for expressing a preference when they make admission decisions and when making decisions on appeals.
Appeal panels know that already, so I'm not sure what the point of spelling it out would be - it would be like going to the GP and saying "Could I draw your attention to the fact that your role is to diagnose and treat my illness"! :?
....... religious or philosophical convictions ........
I know you have a couple of specific reasons for wanting a place at the school in question, but where does religion or philosophy come into it? Wanting the best or most appropriate school for your child isn't in itself a religion or philosophy.
What do you think?
It's superfluous! :lol:
I have finally recieved the clerk's 'notes'. Not much on there, as expected!
I suspect what you've actually received is not the clerk's notes but the 'pro forma' or spreadsheet.
The clerk has noted that 'the HT recommendation was not made prior but after the result'. I don't see how they can use this as evidence against my DD as we lived OOC at the time and only Bucks heads make recommendations prior to the 11+.
Their system didn't allow for OoC heads to make recommendations in advance, so of course OoC heads didn't make recommendations in advance!
I agree - it seems a statement of the obvious!
If they were going to dismiss OoC recommendations, why ask for them at all?
Perhaps the original statement was much more subtly worded. What you have is the transcribed version.
The clerk also notes that there is 'no evidence a high performing child'. I think that's slightly unfair considering she is predicted level 5s for her other subjects (now level 6 in reading according to mock SATs taken at her new school. Also, her old HT noted that she had scored 141+ in VR CATs. I would say that IS evidence of high ability. To say there is NO evidence is a bit strong, no??
Whether the judgement was fair is not an issue for an appeal, though. The first issue for an appeal is whether the process (not the judgement) was 'fair, consistent & objective'. If you overcome that hurdle, then your case for selection can be looked at in its entirety again (including the new evidence of significant recent progress).
Etienne
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