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 Post subject: 3 points out - Bucks
PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2012 11:54 am 
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Joined: Fri Nov 30, 2012 7:53 pm
Posts: 7
Hi there, just need a little honest advice.

I have read everything I possibly can from your site, so thank you so much it has been more helpful and indepth than that given from the school.

Our DS scored 117, last SATS results were Reading 5c Writing 4b Maths 4b Science 4a and reading age was over 2 years above. Predicted all 5s for end of year, although until I see the report I don't know at what level yet. The NVR score was 114, so not in the high scores but at above average.

We have seen the head who is willing to back us with an appeal, but with "reservations". As soon as that word was mentioned my heart sunk. She said in her honest opinion she felt that Grammar would definitely suit, although at this stage she couldn't put that, but by the end of year 6 he would be more than ready and able.

We have our eldest already in the Grammar who was at the same level as my youngest is now and scored over 121. Since being at the Grammar the achievements have been outstanding and we know that our youngest would do equally well.
They are very close and both are absolutely devastated as always thought they would be together.

We decided to adhere to the LAs wishes and have had no outside tuition, just bought the papers from you as I had with my eldest and the average scores on the practice papers were above 74. I know that all of the pupils that past at the school had a minimum of 3 years tutoring, so am now feeling that I have done my youngest a diservice. The head said to mention this but I am sure I have seen somewhere on your forum that adhering to the LAs wishes will not help one bit in an appeal?

So whether to review/appeal at all I know is ultimately up to us, but would appreciate your thoughts?

Incidentally, was told from our head that we had to do the review, and the appeal was only if there were complaints about the review!

Thank you so much for your time and help, didn't realise how emotional and stressful this would all be and your forums have been my rock!


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 Post subject: Re: 3 points out - Bucks
PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2012 12:34 pm 
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Joined: Tue Dec 04, 2012 11:42 am
Posts: 2
Teepee.

OMG!!! your story is exactly the same as our son right to the very end. I cant believe it. I actually thought my husband wrote this. :)

We are also very confused as to the appeal/review process. I phoned Bucks CC this morning and was told that appeals are no longer taking place but reading ET forum, she states that if one opts for a review then you cannot go for an appeal. I dont know where to start and we have 9 days left.

If anyone out there can assist us we will be very gratefull. Please :? .
Kindheart


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 Post subject: Re: 3 points out - Bucks
PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2012 12:49 pm 
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Joined: Mon Dec 12, 2005 5:26 pm
Posts: 7059
TeePee1 wrote:
We have seen the head who is willing to back us with an appeal, but with "reservations". As soon as that word was mentioned my heart sunk. She said in her honest opinion she felt that Grammar would definitely suit, although at this stage she couldn't put that, but by the end of year 6 he would be more than ready and able.
If the head is satisfied about academic potential, then I think she may be wrong to talk about 'reservations', and should note the heading on the summary sheet:
Quote:
Recommendation: Academic potential
Of course, she may feel there is insufficient evidence at the moment - but in my view that ought to be a separate issue.

Quote:
I know that all of the pupils that past at the school had a minimum of 3 years tutoring, so am now feeling that I have done my youngest a diservice. The head said to mention this but I am sure I have seen somewhere on your forum that adhering to the LAs wishes will not help one bit in an appeal?
It won't help, I'm afraid - how can anyone prove a negative? ("My child wasn't tutored - honestly!")

Quote:
So whether to review/appeal at all I know is ultimately up to us, but would appreciate your thoughts?
We can only point out pros and cons. A 'pro' in your case could be that an appeal in the summer term would give more opportunity to assemble the academic evidence the head may be wanting.

Quote:
Incidentally, was told from our head that we had to do the review, and the appeal was only if there were complaints about the review!
Completely wrong!

Quote:
Thank you so much for your time and help, didn't realise how emotional and stressful this would all be and your forums have been my rock!
Thank you for your very kind words. This has always been a difficult process to go through, but the new system - with all the uncertainties and misinformation surrounding it - is adding enormously to the stress.

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Etienne


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 Post subject: Re: 3 points out - Bucks
PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2012 1:19 pm 
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Joined: Fri Nov 30, 2012 7:53 pm
Posts: 7
Etienne,

Thank you so much for your prompt reply.

I am assuming that once we have the heads report it is up to us whether it be used for the initial review or following appeal?

You have made some good points, I will see her again and see if she can put your suggestion on her recommendation.

Thank you once again, and yes incredibly stressful, moving house, getting married doesn't come near! I think having one child with an excellent start in life and the other not having that same opportunity, just accentuates the whole situation.... :roll:


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 Post subject: Re: 3 points out - Bucks
PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2012 1:24 pm 
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Joined: Fri Nov 30, 2012 7:53 pm
Posts: 7
Kindheart,

How funny, no I am definitely not your husband! :lol:

What a complete mare.....good luck to you in whatever your decision maybe.

Don't know about you but I am looking forward to a good nights sleep once all this is over!


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 Post subject: Re: 3 points out - Bucks
PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2012 1:44 pm 
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Joined: Mon Dec 12, 2005 5:26 pm
Posts: 7059
TeePee1 wrote:
I am assuming that once we have the heads report it is up to us whether it be used for the initial review or following appeal?
Yes, it's up to you how you use it.

If you were to go to appeal, however, then round about Easter I would ask the head for a letter updating the evidence as appropriate.

Incidentally we had a similar sort of case a year ago where the headteacher didn't quite take on board the point about potential.
viewtopic.php?f=35&t=23215&p=273645&hilit=potential#p273645
In this instance, the head took a separate issue (attitude etc.) and modified the potential grade accordingly! Fortunately he was open to gentle persuasion that he was wrong!

The best you can hope for is that the head might give a '2', and then in her comments talk not about 'reservations' (which sounds negative), but about how your son is rapidly maturing and would be ideally suited to a grammar school at the end of year 6.

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Etienne


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 Post subject: Re: 3 points out - Bucks
PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2012 5:48 pm 
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Joined: Thu Mar 08, 2007 4:47 pm
Posts: 464
Location: South Bucks
TeePee1 wrote:

We have seen the head who is willing to back us with an appeal, but with "reservations". As soon as that word was mentioned my heart sunk. She said in her honest opinion she felt that Grammar would definitely suit, although at this stage she couldn't put that, but by the end of year 6 he would be more than ready and able.


Am I being thick here or what? The head is saying that your child isn't ready right NOW (only 1/3 of the way through year 6) to enter year 7 at grammar school but that she is confident your child will be ready (to enter Y 7) by the time they have completed year 6. So what are her 'reservations' are then? I don't understand.


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 Post subject: Re: 3 points out - Bucks
PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2012 6:48 pm 
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Joined: Fri Nov 30, 2012 7:53 pm
Posts: 7
Her reservations are that at the moment his grades aren't high enough to make him exceptional, "he is above average but not a high flier" in her words.

I am also very confused and need to have another meeting after having time to digest it all. The more we think about it the more we realise a lot of the things said relating to how he is now are completely irrelevant.

I think she had put him down as a 3:2.

I have also made an error with the achieved score, scrambled brain at the moment, it was 118 not 117 as in my original post. :?


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 Post subject: Re: 3 points out - Bucks
PostPosted: Thu Dec 06, 2012 5:48 pm 
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Joined: Fri Nov 30, 2012 7:53 pm
Posts: 7
Etienne I need your help again!

Went in to speak to the school again today 'Head of Year' this time to get another perspective and a bit of honesty as to why I didn't have the full support of the school and only with reservation.

I was also told that the school do not predict pupils going up two sub levels in year 6, it is only 1 as it is a shorter period inbetween the SATS opposed to other years, in Year 6 the SATS are taken in May whereas year 5 are July........

This again throws a spanner in the works as you can see by year 5 results it would not put my son in a good light for predictions end of year 6.

Does this sound right to you?

They are also still adamant that the process for appeals is Review first, followed by IAP only if you feel that your review was dealt with unfairly etc.

I am looking again desperately through your information as I want to put together the facts and am trying to get information off of the link you supplied for the School Admissions website: https://schoolsweb.buckscc.gov.uk/schoo ... R_2013.pdf

I cannot for the life of me find anywhere the crucial quote that you picked out:

Quote:
3.13 An appeal panel may be asked to consider an appeal where the appellant believes that the child did not perform at their best on the day of the entrance test. In such cases:
a) where a local review process has not been applied, the panel must only uphold the appeal if it is satisfied:
i) that there is evidence to demonstrate that the child is of the required academic standards, for example, school reports giving Year 5/Year 6 SAT results or a letter of support from their current or previous school clearly indicating why the child is considered to be of grammar school ability; and
ii) where applicable, that the appellant’s arguments outweigh the admission authority’s case that admission of additional children would cause prejudice.


Probably staring me in the face but I have read through and am sure that I haven't missed it?

Your advice that appealing later is our only hope I feel, where I can present solid academic achievement, a review with the predictions my school will put forward would be an instant turn down.

If I can show the school that there is this option of a later appeal then I know if the 2 levels or more required has been achieved they will back me in whatever way they can???

Incidentally my confused brain put his score as 117 when it was 118....doh

Thank you once again Etienne. :D


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 Post subject: Re: 3 points out - Bucks
PostPosted: Thu Dec 06, 2012 7:34 pm 
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Joined: Mon Dec 12, 2005 5:26 pm
Posts: 7059
TeePee1 wrote:
Went in to speak to the school again today 'Head of Year' this time ......
I was also told that the school do not predict pupils going up two sub levels in year 6, it is only 1 as it is a shorter period inbetween the SATS opposed to other years, in Year 6 the SATS are taken in May whereas year 5 are July........
I've not heard this argument before. If Guest55 is around, I'd be interested to hear what she thinks.

Quote:
They are also still adamant that the process for appeals is Review first, followed by IAP only if you feel that your review was dealt with unfairly etc.
We are trying to get clarification with regard to this.

Quote:
I cannot for the life of me find anywhere the crucial quote that you picked out:
B18 in the Q&As refers to the Code of Practice. This is the Appeals Code, issued under Section 84 of the School Standards and Framework Act 1998.
http://www.elevenplusexams.co.uk/appeals/general#a4

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Etienne


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