Go to navigation
It is currently Sun Dec 04, 2016 1:57 am

All times are UTC




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 10 posts ] 
Author Message
PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2013 9:51 pm 
Offline

Joined: Thu Sep 24, 2009 10:59 am
Posts: 5922
Sorry Etienne, I know you're very busy but if you have time could you please clarify the following point for me (out of interest)?

Buckinghamshire has introduced a selection review procedure for those unsuccessful in the 11 plus. If this review is also unsuccessful, appellants then can go to another layer of appeal, whose purpose is only to decide whether the initial review was conducted fairly, but with the burden of proof lying with those who conducted it, ie the collected head teachers of Bucks. Am I right so far?

Surely just about every parent who doesn't get the outcome they want from the initial review is just going to go to appeal 'to ensure no avenue is unexplored' in the quest to get the school of choice? And the balance will shift from trying to prove a child is suited to GS to trying to prove something unfair was done at the initial review? So won't this add an extra layer to the process and lead to a whole new emphasis on proving miscarriages of justice? There appears to be no incentive to accept the verdict of the review panel. So heads are going to spend hours, nay, days at reviews and then at reviews of reviews trying to prove their first reviews were fair. Or maybe I have misunderstood or am I missing something?

Thanks in advance.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2013 11:09 pm 
Offline

Joined: Mon Dec 12, 2005 5:26 pm
Posts: 7059
Hi Amber

Broadly speaking, I think you could be right!

Quote:
Surely just about every parent who doesn't get the outcome they want from the initial review is just going to go to appeal 'to ensure no avenue is unexplored' in the quest to get the school of choice?
That is the crunch question. Will parents be put off? Or, to mix my metaphors :), will they clutch at any straw to leave no stone unturned?

Schools may have been expecting that most parents who've not succeeded at review will think the odds are now stacked against them, and it's not going to be worth the hassle and stress of an appeal.

Look at one of today's posts:
    Quote:
    Having had a 'Selection Review' which was unsuccessful, it now seems as if the focus has changed from proving to the 'Independent Appeal Panel' that out son has the academic ability suited to a grammar school and 'exceptional circumstances' preventing him from performing during the process to proving that the 'Selection Review' was not fair or consistent. A task made almost impossible by the fact that (according to other articles on your website) the LA are unlikely to release full details or documents produced during that review.

    It seems as if we have had our 'Review' and in my view the likelihood of getting the 'Independent Review Panel' [that should be 'independent appeal panel'] to reverse the decision already made, without overwhelming evidence (which the LA would need to provide) is almost nil.

"Overwhelming evidence"? "[The chances are] almost nil"?
I wouldn't be nearly as pessimistic as that - but we shall have to see what happens in practice.

Quote:
So heads are going to spend hours, nay, days at reviews and then at reviews of reviews trying to prove their first reviews were fair.
The review process was organised by the LA, acting as agent for the grammar schools. It's possible the schools will also hire a presenting officer from the LA to represent them at appeal.

The fact remains that, if lots of the unsuccessful reviews are taken to appeal, then the new system could prove more costly and drawn-out than may have been envisaged!

_________________
Etienne


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Feb 13, 2013 9:37 am 
Offline

Joined: Tue Jun 02, 2009 9:28 pm
Posts: 2439
If I was a Bucks parent, I would be pleased you had posted this, as i would certainly consider re-appealing if the first appeal failed. You have made the procedure clearer.

(However, I am not in Bucks, and still have a daunting appeal to produce.)


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Feb 13, 2013 12:38 pm 
Offline

Joined: Fri Oct 02, 2009 12:35 pm
Posts: 1046
Location: Buckinghamshire
Amber wrote:
Surely just about every parent who doesn't get the outcome they want from the initial review is just going to go to appeal 'to ensure no avenue is unexplored' in the quest to get the school of choice? And the balance will shift from trying to prove a child is suited to GS to trying to prove something unfair was done at the initial review? So won't this add an extra layer to the process and lead to a whole new emphasis on proving miscarriages of justice? There appears to be no incentive to accept the verdict of the review panel. So heads are going to spend hours, nay, days at reviews and then at reviews of reviews trying to prove their first reviews were fair. Or maybe I have misunderstood or am I missing something?

I too can see this new system becoming long, drawn out and costly! Many parents will leave no stone unturned - especially if they truly believe that a particular type of schooling is the right one for their child.

As for finding out reasons for the review being unfair - I'm sure in many cases the short time scale given for the review papers to be returned may be one, with parents not having enough time to put together paperwork supporting their childs academic ability etc. The 'old' system gave parents a couple of months to put an appeal together, with supporting paperwork. Now it's around 10 days!

_________________
Heartmum x x x


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Feb 13, 2013 4:41 pm 
Offline

Joined: Thu Jul 14, 2011 9:18 am
Posts: 306
This sounds like the much-derided system in Medway, which leaves parents in a terrible position of, at least on paper, having to decide in advance whether to go for review or appeal. However in practice, the council are so prone to mistakes that it seems fairly easy to criticize the review in most cases, so determined parents are not denied an appeal.

It's still a stupid system


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Feb 13, 2013 7:56 pm 
Offline

Joined: Thu Sep 24, 2009 10:59 am
Posts: 5922
pheasantchick wrote:
If I was a Bucks parent, I would be pleased you had posted this, as i would certainly consider re-appealing if the first appeal failed. You have made the procedure clearer.
That wasn't really my aim: I am interested to see whether a system which I imagine was designed to weed out spurious 'extenuating circumstances' claims involving other people's sick gerbils; or nasty memories of dead great-grannies, rekindled by the VR process, would in fact lead to parents pursuing 'miscarriage of justice' type cases which would place an additional burden on the system. Sorry, long sentence! Unforeseen consequences perhaps; and it was a genuine question. The word 'determined' in Samlet's post is key, I think.

Good luck with your appeal though, Pheasantchick. :D


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Feb 13, 2013 9:44 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue Jun 02, 2009 9:28 pm
Posts: 2439
Sorry - didn't mean to blur your intention, but just to indicate how your post has probably given bucks parents a new avenue of appeal if they weren't aware of it before.

Thanks for your best wishes regarding my appeal. I'm nervous about it getting it right, being nervous, getting it right, speaking clearly, not letting my son down, etc.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Feb 15, 2013 12:15 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue Jul 21, 2009 9:56 pm
Posts: 8228
Sorry to butt in too. Is the first review like the Kent review - no parental involvement, so not really an appeal? If so, can a parent's right to a "true appeal" be taken away in this way?

If so, it seems strange to make this change alongside a change in test provider too, when no-one really knows yet if CEM is going to produce more "reliable" or "less reliable" decisions than the previous Bucks testing regime.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Feb 17, 2013 10:29 pm 
Offline

Joined: Mon Mar 15, 2010 2:45 pm
Posts: 4604
No, mystery, it isn't like the Kent system

viewtopic.php?f=35&t=29733


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Feb 17, 2013 10:35 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue Jul 21, 2009 9:56 pm
Posts: 8228
Oh it looks horrid. I hope kent doesn't copy it. Why change the test and this all at the same time?


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 10 posts ] 

All times are UTC


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 6 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
CALL 020 8204 5060
   
Privacy Policy | Refund Policy | Disclaimer | Copyright © 2004 – 2016