Kent Appeal Non qual & Sickness Help!!

[anotherworriedmum]

I am going to chip in too! We did a Kent appeal last year, at the time there was someone else doing one who had a similiar discussion with the HT, which has always stuck with me as he posted this, which I think is now in the FAQs.....

katel’s story

We have been using the fantastic guidance from Etienne and others on here and we were well on the way when we went to see our son’s head teacher yesterday who threw us into a panic by talking about letters from choir masters and scout masters and football coaches and stuff about “the whole child” – directly contrary to Etienne’s advice and what we had been doing. When we got home, we rang the LEA Secondary Admissions Team, who confirmed what the Head had said. All we could think was that things had changed somehow. We were completely confused!

Then, late last night the Head rang us at home. He said that he had just talked to the Clerk of a Kent appeals panel, who said that both he (the Head) and the Admissions Team were absolutely wrong, and Etienne’s guidance is spot on!

The Clerk said that the only time letters from coaches and so on could possibly be useful is if it is a specialist school and they provide solid, independent evidence from a qualified person of a particular aptitude. He also said that sometimes evidence of independent thinking and leadership might help a bit, but not much. He said that the crucial element is hard evidence. The Head’s recommendation is very important, which needs to be incredibly carefully worded. Any element of “he deserves a place because he’s a lovely lad with beautiful manners” and the whole letter is called into question. And SATs levels, CAT scores and an Ed Psych’s report. So, basically, what the fantastic Etienne says. I am shocked at our Head getting it so wrong, but I am beyond furious at the Admissions Team. Who knows how many people they have misinformed and sent on wild goose chases!

Heads are not always right!

Good luck

[T12ACY]

I have to also add in here. The hearing, in my view, is not really the place for a child. It's a formal setting and can be quite intimidating to grown ups, let alone a child! There can be some difficult questions asked, and if the presence of your DD detracts from this in any way it could potentially damage your chances.

Some children do attend, but it is very rare indeed. Some parents produce photographs of their child to help personalise the case, again I don't find this helps. Letters from children are even produced on the day, all of these things do pull at heartstrings but I would go so far as to say it could lead the hearing away from hard facts. I advise you keep focused on the evidence of ability and reasons for wanting this specific school, which it seems to me you have considered quite carefully.

[Debby1967]

Well the day has come, I have all my information in front of me and have to get it all down on paper....Help!!

I have some specific questions that I would really appreciate some advice:-

1) Year 5 SATS or 112 Reading Comprehension and 115 Maths - can anyone tell me what "level" that would be?

2) This is what I have to include as "evidence", any comments/additions/shouldnt put ins etc would also be really appreciated:-

School reports? (Do I include all or just perhaps Year 5?
Head Teacher Letter (strong supporting letter)
SATS of Above 112/115
Level 5 in all Core subjects for Year 6
Head Teacher Letter states expected Sats to be above Level5
Overal Mark for Kent test was 352
Dr's Letter (states what was wrong with her 5 days before, antibiotics provided and his opinion that "wouldnt have been at her best?)

It has been suggested that I add in the following which is what Im not sure of to be honest?

School projects that she excelled in
School work (for example did a business project with head teacher and marked really well
Her artwork (head teacher said to add in)
She makes her own soap and jewellery etc (Head teacher said to take examples)
Her headteacher says "never seen a child of her age so advanced in IT" - should I add this/include it??

My main area of "contentious thoughts" are. My daughter suffered very badly with tonsilitus in KS1 and experienced probably 8 bouts every 12 months and finally had her tonsils out in Year 4 - She did miss a lot of school up until then. She has worked really really hard from thereon to catch up and in Year 5 made a massive jump in her sats from Year 4 - 5 which her head teacher said "was extremely unusual" at the time.

Should I include her KS1 early two health issues and expand on how hard she has worked, caught up etc (I feel as though she was sort of a few months behind everyone else and would easily have passed if took 11+ now for exapmple)!

Her headteacher has said "dont mention" illness or previous absences/hospitlization etc??

Thoughts greatfully received!

I really wanted Wilmington Grammar in partiuclar for my daughter not "just" beause it is a grammar school, but because the curriculum, the setup the facilities available etc really suited her as an individual, for example academically of course, but also the IT Science, Textile, Art, Home Economic facilities etc too

Should I include this "wish" or keep to academic subjects only?

All help greatfully received, again thank you

[Etienne]

1) Year 5 SATS or 112 Reading Comprehension and 115 Maths - can anyone tell me what "level" that would be?

I can't say. They're above average, but may not be sufficiently above average. (It depends what the local grammar school standard is.)

In terms of standardised scores, if you look at the table for CATs:
http://www.elevenplusexams.co.uk/appeal ... cation#b28" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
and scroll down to the table (d), you'll see that those scores are at the bottom end of 'above average'.

School reports? (Do I include all or just perhaps Year 5?

Read the Q&As - B11(b).

Head Teacher Letter states expected Sats to be above Level5

What does that mean, I wonder? Above 5c?
It would help to have predictions with sub-levels for KS2.

Dr's Letter (states what was wrong with her 5 days before, antibiotics provided and his opinion that "wouldnt have been at her best?)

Sounds reasonable.

School projects that she excelled in

May not be a good idea - Q&As, B12(g).

School work (for example did a business project with head teacher and marked really well

Q&As, B11 Note 1, and B12(g).

Her artwork (head teacher said to add in)
She makes her own soap and jewellery etc (Head teacher said to take examples)
Her headteacher says "never seen a child of her age so advanced in IT" - should I add this/include it??

Why? It's all completely irrelevant to the academic case.
We've been through this before. If the school specialises in any of these things, then an aptitude might be an argument for wanting a place there.
Most grammar schools don't specialise in soap making, jewellery and IT, though.

My main area of "contentious thoughts" are. My daughter suffered very badly with tonsilitus in KS1 and experienced probably 8 bouts every 12 months and finally had her tonsils out in Year 4 - She did miss a lot of school up until then. She has worked really really hard from thereon to catch up and in Year 5 made a massive jump in her sats from Year 4 - 5 which her head teacher said "was extremely unusual" at the time.

Should I include her KS1 early two health issues and expand on how hard she has worked, caught up etc (I feel as though she was sort of a few months behind everyone else and would easily have passed if took 11+ now for exapmple)!

A brief mention of the health issues from KS1-Year 4, and then highlight the massive jump in her SATs levels from Year 4 - 5, but do not use the word 'hardworking'! (Academic ability is what matters!)

Her headteacher has said "dont mention" illness or previous absences/hospitlization etc??

Some of the advice you've been getting sounds highly suspect.

There's no problem - so long as recent/current progress is really encouraging. It's to her credit if she's overcome the problems caused by absence.

There ought to be some evidence, e.g. a GP's letter, and confirmation (or other evidence) of remarkable progress from the school.

I really wanted Wilmington Grammar in partiuclar for my daughter not "just" beause it is a grammar school, but because the curriculum, the setup the facilities available etc really suited her as an individual, for example academically of course, but also the IT Science, Textile, Art, Home Economic facilities etc too

Should I include this "wish" or keep to academic subjects only?

You should give reasons for wanting a place - but you don't want those reasons to lack 'balance'. It's one thing to be a well-rounded pupil with wide ranging academic and other interests. To give the impression that her interests are all practical and non-academic would be another matter!

Hope this helps.

[Debby1967]

Thanks once again Etienne, sound advice and clear and consice as ever, I will read up on the points you raised,

One question I have is that I totally agree with the jewellery etc point and dont agree with Headteacher. The school im appealing is a maths and IT specialist school. She excels in her IT her headteacher himself told me "I have never seen a child with IT skills like her's at her age" (He meant her graphs/excel/word etc) She helps me with my business, creates invices, mailers etc and does have a very keen interest in graphics and advertising for example.

Should I include that sort of examples as its one of their specialist subjects?

Thanks again

[Debby1967]

Sorry Etienne, I mean to add to this!

Short version of sickness scenario:-

Friday before tests ear and throat really sore, went to drs, upper respitory & ear infection, antibiotics prescribed. Really poorly over the weekend, went into school the Monday but was sent home ill, at suggestion of Headteacher and only attended school purely for the kent tests on the two days - litereally went into school in teh morning and was sent home straight afterwards.

When I collected her I spoke to the head and said "really worried about the tests etc what did he think I should do" and he suggested she came in for the tests alone and went home straight afterwards to continue to recover etc. He went onto say I think she is ill, but well enough to sit them and better for her to take them here then somewhere else at a later date etc - also make sure you get confirmation of her being ill/drugs prescribed etc and we will send with her paper to confirm.

All seemed good to go so I did as suggested. Head told me on the morning of the first test "dont worry I am going to sit her near to me and will keep a close eye on her" so I agreed and went to get the letter etc from GP that day to accompany tests when sent off. When I collected her he said "done really well, bit poorly etc" but did well.

This was mean to be short version sorry!

When the results came out and obviously very disappointed I couldnt get to see the head straight away and rang the grammar school and was lucky enough to get the Admissions Manager there, who was really helpful went through it all with me and actually said "have no idea why you were told to get a letter to send with the tests - would not be considered etc" that would all be done afterwards and head should have advised you of the same. It sounds as though you have grounds to appeal - etc etc etc

My question is (!) sorry...

When completing the appeal form - what do I put to shorten all the above and show that whilst she was ill and obviously not at her best, I acted on advise from the Head, without sounding like a bitter parent?! Im worried that too much will mean they say "well you shouldnt have let her sit the papers" to little wont explain that she wasnt "bed ridden" but wasnt at her best...

Help!!

[Etienne]

Should I include that sort of examples as its one of their specialist subjects?

If they specialise in it, then yes. (It would help to have evidence of the aptitude for IT.)

See also:
http://www.elevenplusexams.co.uk/appeal ... school#c34" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

When completing the appeal form - what do I put to shorten all the above and show that whilst she was ill and obviously not at her best, I acted on advise from the Head

As I more or less suggested before, it would be best to have the facts confirmed in a letter from the headteacher - then all you have to do is write "Please see attached letter (appendix .....)".

Failing that, I suggest you write "The Friday before the tests she was prescribed antibiotics for an upper respiratory & ear infection. Not 100% fit, but on advice from headteacher she came in for the tests and went home immediately afterwards."

You don't have to worry about the detail, because the panel will ask questions at the hearing.

• (It's unlikely but if for any reason the questioning is coming to an end, and they haven't asked about this matter, you can say "Could I just add a bit more detail about the circumstances surrounding the test .......?")

[Debby1967]

Thanks Etinne

I've done my letter, I think may be a bit detailed though. Should I literally ball point an add detail at the hearing itself? Just worried they may not ask the questions to draw out the information.

I can send the letter to you if easier?

Thanks so much again

Debby

[sarahmathews]

Good Luck Debby 1967. I think you should just stick to the academic proof,not bamboozle them with DD"s good at this or DD"S a nice person.its about whether DD fits in to the ethos of the school,just keep calm on the day,and remember even if you think its not gone well,the adjucation panel might think differently. I thought it had gone wrong for me and was Delighted to be proved wrong, My DD scored 351,so there is hope. Best Wishes Sarah mathews

[Etienne]

I've done my letter, I think may be a bit detailed though. Should I literally ball point an add detail at the hearing itself? Just worried they may not ask the questions to draw out the information.

• • The evidence should speak for itself. (Anything you write will make little difference - if the panel want to know more, they will ask.)
  • The best presented cases are usually the most concise.
  • Academic evidence will matter most (if the score is an issue), followed by reasons for wanting a place.
  • Bullet points are an aid to clarity.
  • If the panel don't ask questions about something, they either have all the information they need - or in their view it's not important.