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PostPosted: Mon Apr 08, 2013 9:11 am 
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Hi, have come across this forum and wondered if anyone could help me with some appeals questions I may have. We are appealing for a place at my daughters preferred school (grammar) in Trafford. However have heard (through the grapevine) that is a notourisly tough one to get into on appeal. We are appealing that my daughter (who missed by 6 points) was not working at her true standard and we believe we also have some special circumstances. She has in my opinion water tight academic ability evidence. Is 5a standard and has been submitted for the level 6 papers in both subjects.
She took another Grammar school exam and passed and has been allocated it and that is the school she is concentrating on. We want to appeal to cross all the t's and dot the i's.

How would an appeal panel view her being allocated a grammar school, would it even come into question. For some reason I can't help but think may go against her in that they'll see it as well she's got a good school there anyway. We are not questioning that her allocated school is NOT the right one for her, but the one we are appealing at IS.

Would that be the right approach?
Thank you for your time.

Ps I've also sent some background information via the link along with her raw scores which mean nothing to me, but considering she was close to a pass, look a bit low?


Last edited by ladybird1 on Wed Apr 17, 2013 7:47 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 08, 2013 10:59 am 
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Hi Ladybird1 and welcome

You are absolutely right in concentrating on explaining a) that the exam score did not reflect her true ability and of this is accepted then b) why this school is the right one for her

the issue of the allocated school should not come into the discussions.

Have you had a look at the Appeals FAQ ? http://www.elevenplusexams.co.uk/appeals

re the info to the link - am sure Etienne or Sally Anne will have a look shortly but they are a bit snowed with info at present. if you feel happy posting the scores on here am sure that some locals may be able to help in understanding them


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 08, 2013 12:09 pm 
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If you are considering an appeal against AGGS then it would only be fair to say that successful non-qualification appeals have been extremely rare in recent years.

I am pleased to hear you are already into one of the other grammar schools.


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 08, 2013 3:36 pm 
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Thank you for your replies and thank you for posting the useful link hermanmunster. A friend of mine knows someone who appealed at the same school last year (didn't win) and says I should definitely go in with my eyes wide open!

Having briefly looked at the general and very excellent advice on here regarding appeals, we have gone against the grain a bit and our covering letter is quite in depth. I know it probably should be short and to the point but felt for our situation wanted to be quite brief at the hearing as everything I wanted to say/get across had already been submitted. Probably have done it all the wrong way around but there we are.

Wanted to ask also, I need to send the documentation back to the school? Does this mean the school read and are obliged to read our case as well as the appeal panel?


Last edited by ladybird1 on Mon Apr 15, 2013 4:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 09, 2013 6:12 pm 
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Sorry we can't help with raw scores. (We don't have access to all the information that would be needed.)

Quote:
Wanted to ask also, I need to send the documentation back to the school? Does this mean the school read and are obliged to read our case as well as the appeal panel?
They're not obliged to read it, and are probably too busy at the moment anyway. It's likely to be passed straight to the appeals clerk.

The clerk will send everyone a copy of all the papers a week or so before the hearing. That's when you will read the school's case, and that's when the school representative will probably skim through yours.

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 10, 2013 8:15 pm 
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Thank you very much for the reply. I have to admit her raw scores are probably a bit meaningless aren't they. Presumably her date of birth has to be taken into account and maybe other factors. Although interesting to see her raw scores probably don't really have a bearing in her case.

Going back to a members comment regarding my daughters chances and appreciating I am very realistic that her appeal is most likely not going to be upheld ( even though in my biased opinion I still think her evidence ie academic and Extenuating circunstances is pretty strong) I do like to consider any maybe's. If the academic evidence is overwhelming enough that the panel believe it justifies her to have 'passed' and that indeed she was not working to her true ability, could she win the non qualification side but not the over subscription? If you win an appeal, that is a non qualification one AND an over subscription case do you automatically win both of those elements? Apologies probably haven't worded my question very well. Hopefully someone shall understand what I mean.


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 10, 2013 8:38 pm 
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Quote:
could she win the non qualification side but not the over subscription?
That is indeed possible.

What happens in most parts of the country (with a selective system) is that the case for qualification and oversubscription is heard at the same time. When it takes its decision the panel either allows the appeal - or not. If the appeal is allowed, a place is allocated.

If unsuccessful, the decision letter ought to enable you to see how the panel arrived at its final decision - but I've come across many that weren't entirely clear about the qualification part.
This was one such case (which went to the ombudsman):
viewtopic.php?f=35&t=15339&p=185347#p185347

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 11, 2013 6:10 pm 
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Thank you very much Etienne, I read that thread with great interest. I also stumbled across another thread (interestingly also at a Trafford school) where indeed the non qualification was won but not the over subscription so it does happen. Well only time will tell how it all pans out.

I am now in receipt of most of our evidence (one or two pieces yet to get from school) and was wondering whether I should scale things down. I really don't want to bombard the panel with yards and yards of paperwork and am still concerned my covering letter is a bit (very) long. If you'd like to see it I can send to the box. One of my reasons for going into depth somewhat at this initial point is that the person I know through my friend who appealed last year said she felt very rushed on the day and in hindsight wishes she had gone into more detail in the paperwork. There were things not said that she was going to say on the day but felt flumexed etc. I am seeing it that the panel are obliged to read all I send in and I really can keep it short for them on the day and we can all go home nice and early! Please please do say if my way of thinking is wrong. I really don't want to wind the appeal members up by sending in too much and making things too lengthy. Could it really have a negative slant to my case.

ladybird1


Last edited by ladybird1 on Fri Jun 14, 2013 10:12 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 11, 2013 8:20 pm 
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Quote:
...... said she felt very rushed on the day and in hindsight wishes she had gone into more detail in the paperwork. There were things not said that she was going to say on the day but felt flumexed etc.
B40 in the Q&As addresses this point:
http://www.elevenplusexams.co.uk/appeal ... cation#b40

I'm afraid we don't usually have time to read covering letters/multiple reports, and to assess cases as a whole (too much like being a panel member again! :lol:).
Cupcake had a specific question about the wording of one particular report, which was just about manageable!

The Q&As B11 (g) and Note 5 discuss which report to submit.
http://www.elevenplusexams.co.uk/appeal ... cation#b11

Hope this helps.

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 11, 2013 8:43 pm 
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Thank you for your prompt response, and yes I appreciate the time consuming aspect of dealing with non specific requests. Thanks too for pointing me in the direction of school reports advice, it seems just year 5 would be sufficient in our case.

Having read the other link, I think I'll just go with my gut and indeed do it 'the other way round'.

It can be quite a lonely process this, and am often faced with people's opinions (even without them knowing the ins and outs of our case) that it is very unlikely we'll win at said school. Just doesn't happen, especially to girls who didn't pass. These opinions can rub off on you, hearing it again and again. I always tell my daughter never to give up and I guess I should practise what I preach. I think just a hint of reassurance from others that you are indeed doing this for the right reasons etc can work wonders for moral. I really don't want to look back and think 'I wonder what would have happened if we did go to appeal'?

Without wanting to take too much of your time, I have a question regarding a sensitive piece of evidence I want to include. I really am undecided how to include this. I have sent a request via the box but understand if something that can't be answered due to time factors etc or openly on here.
Thank you for your help, I shall keep you updated how we get on.


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