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 Post subject: Bucks IAP Appeal
PostPosted: Wed May 01, 2013 10:28 pm 
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Joined: Wed May 01, 2013 10:01 pm
Posts: 4
Hi Etienne
I must admit I have never been more confused...
My daughter was unsuccessful in selection review, however we still wanted to appeal against the decision as she got a VRTS of 118 and a 2:1 recommendation from the head teacher. We also believe that we have extenuating circumstances, as there was an issue with the way the first exam was moderated - to the extent that a formal investigation was undertaken as several children were disrupted during the exam. Our daughter is a sensitive child and even though the overall results from her school this year were very good, we know that she suffered from that first test disruption, even though others may have not

We've received the appeal dates and understand that the first step is that we are appealing against the initial decision, to prove that it was not conducted in a fair and consistent manner. Only if we are successful here, do we move onto to the next stage, where academic circumstances would be investigated in more detail - is this correct?

So, from reading posts on the forum, I understand that the hearing will be between us and the panel, whereby we should be asking for them to effectively justify the basis on which they made their decision - right? We have asked for case notes and have had back some very brief notes to say how a decision was made - but there is very little detail! I'm confused as to how we are supposed to be questioning them, when surely its really about them giving us a full overview as to how our daughters case was concluded? I sense then that the first stage is really about preparing ourselves with a series of questions to make them satisfy us of a fair and consistent process?

There is so much confusing text within the letters we received - that talk of submitting any evidence that we wish to be taken into consideration - 'x' number of working days before the appeal. What evidence is this? They told us over the phone that this first step is only about challenging the initial decision. Should we supply any evidence or not? What do they mean by it? They told me that if we get past the first stage then at this point further academic evidence would be sought....

Ultimately we don't think that from the case notes received, that they can have possibly considered how the problems of the first test affected our daughter.....and we don't know how this was considered overall. Should we focus on questioning them around this aspect primarily? I understand more now from reading some of the posts but I'm pretty worried about going in there unprepared! its very upsetting when you have no idea how much time and effort they have spent on your case.....and indeed not knowing if they act fairly and spend adequate time investigating your particular case!

I hope you can help - our appeal date is in a couple of weeks.
Thanks

S


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 Post subject: Re: Bucks IAP Appeal
PostPosted: Thu May 02, 2013 9:34 am 
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Joined: Wed Jan 11, 2006 7:10 pm
Posts: 8204
Location: Buckinghamshire
Hi suzy, and welcome!

Etienne is not around at the moment, so I'll try to answer your questions instead.

Some of your questions are answered in this "Sticky" on Bucks: viewtopic.php?f=12&t=31030&p=376217&hilit=first+draft#p376217

Quote:
We've received the appeal dates and understand that the first step is that we are appealing against the initial decision, to prove that it was not conducted in a fair and consistent manner. Only if we are successful here, do we move onto to the next stage, where academic circumstances would be investigated in more detail - is this correct?

Not quite. From what we've heard from those who've already been to appeal, both parts of the case ("fair, consistent & objective", and selection) will be heard automatically. It seems that it's at the end of both of those, when the panel take their decisions, that they decide on FCO. If they find that the review process was not FCO, they move on to the case for selection and decide on that.

Quote:
So, from reading posts on the forum, I understand that the hearing will be between us and the panel, whereby we should be asking for them to effectively justify the basis on which they made their decision - right?

This is a completely different panel. The Review Panels were made up of serving Head teachers. The Independent Appeal Panel is made up of volunteers from the community, some of whom (non-lay members) have experience of education. Each panel will be made up of both lay and non-lay members.

It is the Presenting Officer who is representing the admission authority, and thus the Review Panel. They must justify the case for FCO, and you and members of the IAP can challengeand question them on it.

Quote:
We have asked for case notes and have had back some very brief notes to say how a decision was made - but there is very little detail! I'm confused as to how we are supposed to be questioning them, when surely its really about them giving us a full overview as to how our daughters case was concluded?

That is certainly a question that you should put to the Presenting Officer.

Quote:
I sense then that the first stage is really about preparing ourselves with a series of questions to make them satisfy us of a fair and consistent process?
That sounds fine, and it really comes down to the question of "where is the evidence"?

Quote:
There is so much confusing text within the letters we received - that talk of submitting any evidence that we wish to be taken into consideration - 'x' number of working days before the appeal. What evidence is this?

They told us over the phone that this first step is only about challenging the initial decision. Should we supply any evidence or not? What do they mean by it?

This was discussed here: viewtopic.php?f=12&t=31030&p=375472&hilit=iap+must+first+consider#p375472

Quote:
They told me that if we get past the first stage then at this point further academic evidence would be sought....

No - if you have any additional academic evidence, you should submit it as soon as you possibly can. You can take small amounts of evidence, plus school books with you on the day. They definitely won't be proactive in seeking the evidence for you!

Quote:
Ultimately we don't think that from the case notes received, that they can have possibly considered how the problems of the first test affected our daughter.....and we don't know how this was considered overall. Should we focus on questioning them around this aspect primarily? I understand more now from reading some of the posts but I'm pretty worried about going in there unprepared! its very upsetting when you have no idea how much time and effort they have spent on your case.....and indeed not knowing if they act fairly and spend adequate time investigating your particular case!
You can point this out at the hearing, although the PO will not be able to tell you how long was spent on your case.

I can reassure you that IAP members are invariably kind and welcoming towards parents, and they do understand how stressful an appeal is.

Sally-Anne


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 Post subject: Re: Bucks IAP Appeal
PostPosted: Sun May 12, 2013 10:40 pm 
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Joined: Wed May 01, 2013 10:01 pm
Posts: 4
Thanks Sally-Anne all been very helpful and we have our IAP hearing on Tuesday...

We now have a re recommendation letter from the head teacher to a 1:1 along with a strong letter of support from her teacher with level 5 sats mock results and revised reading age... is this evidence only going to be considered in the event we prove SRP was not FCO?
I am unsure if we need to bring examples of her school work as seen that being mentioned - her teacher has given us examples of her work ?

In the order of business sent out with the case notes after 'questions by appellant and panel' its 'the case for the appellant' does this mean the case as to why our daughter is suitable for grammar school or the case for FCO as there is also a 'summing up by the appellant' after this?

I will be so glad when this is over - do you also know max number of people allowed to represent the appellant?


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 Post subject: Re: Bucks IAP Appeal
PostPosted: Mon May 13, 2013 10:57 am 
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Joined: Wed Jan 11, 2006 7:10 pm
Posts: 8204
Location: Buckinghamshire
    Hi Suzy

    Quote:
    We now have a re recommendation letter from the head teacher to a 1:1 along with a strong letter of support from her teacher with level 5 sats mock results and revised reading age... is this evidence only going to be considered in the event we prove SRP was not FCO?

    It should be for the admission authority to prove FCO. You present your academic case, but in practice it will only be considered if the panel decide the review was not FCO.

    Quote:
    I am unsure if we need to bring examples of her school work as seen that being mentioned - her teacher has given us examples of her work ?
    Have you seen the Q&As? http://www.elevenplusexams.co.uk/appeal ... cation#b11 (Scroll down to note 1.)

    Quote:
    In the order of business sent out with the case notes after 'questions by appellant and panel' its 'the case for the appellant' does this mean the case as to why our daughter is suitable for grammar school

    Yes, it does. The case for FCO would be the admission authority's case at the beginning.

    Quote:
    I will be so glad when this is over - do you also know max number of people allowed to represent the appellant?
    Do you mean "represent" or "accompany"? As far as I know there specific limit, but if you are planning to take a professional of some sort with you, I think it would be usual to have just - or possibly two if they had different roles to play in the case.

    If you mean "accompany", you can of course take someone with you for moral support, but I think there would need to be a good reason why more than one or two extra adults need to attend. Some appeals can end up being heard in quite small rooms.


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 Post subject: Re: Bucks IAP Appeal
PostPosted: Mon May 20, 2013 11:58 am 
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Posts: 4
Hi we had our 1st IAP appeal last week and just heard back that while we got proved SRP was not FCO there was still not sufficient academic evidence to prove her suitability for grammar school - it appears the head teachers report in the selection review was missing vital information about KS1 performance - there were clear instructions in the head teachers manual as to what needed to be included and this is what the presenting officer spent a lot of time discussing

We have a 2nd case in a couple of weeks and confused as to how to enhance the level of academic evidence or information we take into next appeal... her mock SATS are 5b and 5cs are they only looking for 5a's?
She has a revised 1:1 recommendation from head teacher
Reading age just under 2 years above her age
Is it the fact this information not of a high enough standard or do I need to be providing more examples of work or proof of the level of progress being achieved this year alone?

Im glad we proved the FCO element but maybe didn't spend enough time preparing for the academic side of things as was asked what authors she reads etc by one of panel members...


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 Post subject: Re: Bucks IAP Appeal
PostPosted: Mon May 20, 2013 5:09 pm 
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Joined: Mon Dec 12, 2005 5:26 pm
Posts: 7061
Quote:
it appears the head teachers report in the selection review was missing vital information about KS1 performance - there were clear instructions in the head teachers manual as to what needed to be included and this is what the presenting officer spent a lot of time discussing
I assume this was during the FCO part of the appeal?

The information was clearly requested for reviews, but I wouldn't have thought the average appeal panel would be too fussed about KS1 results. In most cases what really matters is the standard of year 5/6 work.

Quote:
We have a 2nd case in a couple of weeks and confused as to how to enhance the level of academic evidence or information we take into next appeal... her mock SATS are 5b and 5cs are they only looking for 5a's?
One would hope not. A borderline 4a/5c might raise questions, and 5b might be seen as 'safer' - but generally speaking a clear level 5 prediction should be perfectly adequate for grammar school. I doubt the majority of pupils at GS joined with 5a's!

Quote:
Is it the fact this information not of a high enough standard or do I need to be providing more examples of work or proof of the level of progress being achieved this year alone?

http://www.elevenplusexams.co.uk/appeal ... cation#b11

Quote:
Im glad we proved the FCO element but maybe didn't spend enough time preparing for the academic side of things as was asked what authors she reads etc by one of panel members...

http://www.elevenplusexams.co.uk/appeal ... cation#b27

It would be rather difficult to prove that she really has read Milton's 'Paradise Lost' and the complete works of Shakespeare. :?
On the other hand, "She only reads comics" might not go down too well!

Once the school case became available, then the focus naturally moved on to FCO - but we did warn back on 1st March:
Quote:
(d)6. • For the moment we think that your focus should be on the issue of qualification (however cruel it may be under this system that you don't yet know whether your case for selection will be taken into account).
• This may be a secondary hurdle, but it could prove to be the major one.

viewtopic.php?f=12&t=31030

The issue of "Did I do anything wrong" was discussed here:
viewtopic.php?f=35&t=32213&p=379428#p379428

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Etienne


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 Post subject: Re: Bucks IAP Appeal
PostPosted: Tue May 21, 2013 10:04 pm 
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Joined: Wed May 01, 2013 10:01 pm
Posts: 4
Thanks Etienne we had printed out all our questions and handed to IAP along with admissions authority representative is this wise?


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 Post subject: Re: Bucks IAP Appeal
PostPosted: Tue May 21, 2013 10:48 pm 
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Joined: Mon Dec 12, 2005 5:26 pm
Posts: 7061
If you have a lot of questions about FCO, I feel sure the clerk would welcome a copy.

I would suggest asking the panel if they would find it helpful too.

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Etienne


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