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PostPosted: Tue Jun 04, 2013 8:27 pm 
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So DD was fortunate enough to get through on FCO and academic. Apparently they didn't think enough time had been spent at SRP on Dyslexia consideration, which wasn't even one of our main arguments.

She is now on the waiting list for her preferred school, with the school discrimination appeal on the horizon. This all begs a few questions. Any answers or thoughts would be gratefully received. Apologies if these are on other threads, but I couldn't find anything.

1) Does this mean that she gets a particular position on the waiting list, since she should have been in the first round of allocations (FCO not proven and academic case agreed)?
2) Since she should have been in the first round, can we put pressure on the Education Authority (County Council) in any way? Even though the schools are now their own admissions authorities, they must somehow be under the direction of the Authority. We are wondering about getting a legal letter and asking them to request a place at another Grammar school, even though that is not part of the policy. Going through a second IAP (or more) seems to add unfairness onto unfairness.
3) Since our case was adjourned from 1st May to 31st May, and the third round was earlier in May AND we hear from another thread that a successful child was offered a place earlier this month, how does this strengthen our case?
4) If a place can't be found after all this, does this open up a compensation case and if so, presumably with the school, since they are the Admissions Authority?
5) If no place can be found, would this constitute the highest criteria for Y8 entry, above the usual waiting list criteria like academic competence?

So much to think about and such uncharted territory!

Thanks for your help!


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 04, 2013 8:53 pm 
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The Local Authority can't help as Academies are not under their control at all.

There are GS places as we know some schools are undersubscribed ...


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 04, 2013 9:48 pm 
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thanks. Trouble is, if you find an undersubscribed school, as I understand you still have to go through the IAP and may not succeed with the appeal anyway.


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 04, 2013 10:27 pm 
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Well done on getting this far.

I don't see any shortcuts, though.

Quote:
1) Does this mean that she gets a particular position on the waiting list, since she should have been in the first round of allocations (FCO not proven and academic case agreed)?
No, I don't believe this is possible. The waiting list (which could change from day to day) is determined solely by the application of the oversubscription rules.

Quote:
2) Since she should have been in the first round, can we put pressure on the Education Authority (County Council) in any way?
Chances are that they (and the admission authority) would argue there is a process to go through, and that any arguments about why you should have a place should be put to an independent appeal panel.

Quote:
3) Since our case was adjourned from 1st May to 31st May, and the third round was earlier in May AND we hear from another thread that a successful child was offered a place earlier this month, how does this strengthen our case?
It depends whether you would have got a place according to the admission rules (if known to be qualified) at an earlier point in time.

Quote:
4) If a place can't be found after all this, does this open up a compensation case
I'm doubtful. If you would have been entitled to a place at an earlier point in time, then that is an issue for an appeal panel to address.

Quote:
5) If no place can be found, would this constitute the highest criteria for Y8 entry, above the usual waiting list criteria like academic competence?
I'm afraid not. There are no criteria other than qualified status and the oversubscription rules.

Quote:
Trouble is, if you find an undersubscribed school, as I understand you still have to go through the IAP and may not succeed with the appeal anyway.
If your child is now considered to be qualified, and if another Bucks grammar school has vacancies, I don't see why you would have to go through an IAP.
(You might have to formally change your preferences.)

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Etienne


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 04, 2013 10:40 pm 
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Well, brilliant news so far. I hope a place is somehow forthcoming through some mechanism or other.


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 05, 2013 5:30 am 
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Toby that's brilliant news to get to this point. I 'know' you in RL and am so pleased for you all.
Fingers crossed a place becomes available at first choice, if not are there many going to the other local choice this year?


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 05, 2013 12:06 pm 
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Thanks, Etienne. Is there one place place where I can find arguments against the school about oversubscription? I hear all your points, but I wonder whether they have been really tested, given so much of this is new and the SRP was found not to be FCO but after allocation?

Etienne wrote:
Well done on getting this far.

I don't see any shortcuts, though.

Quote:
1) Does this mean that she gets a particular position on the waiting list, since she should have been in the first round of allocations (FCO not proven and academic case agreed)?
No, I don't believe this is possible. The waiting list (which could change from day to day) is determined solely by the application of the oversubscription rules.

Quote:
2) Since she should have been in the first round, can we put pressure on the Education Authority (County Council) in any way?
Chances are that they (and the admission authority) would argue there is a process to go through, and that any arguments about why you should have a place should be put to an independent appeal panel.

Quote:
3) Since our case was adjourned from 1st May to 31st May, and the third round was earlier in May AND we hear from another thread that a successful child was offered a place earlier this month, how does this strengthen our case?
It depends whether you would have got a place according to the admission rules (if known to be qualified) at an earlier point in time.

Quote:
4) If a place can't be found after all this, does this open up a compensation case
I'm doubtful. If you would have been entitled to a place at an earlier point in time, then that is an issue for an appeal panel to address.

Quote:
5) If no place can be found, would this constitute the highest criteria for Y8 entry, above the usual waiting list criteria like academic competence?
I'm afraid not. There are no criteria other than qualified status and the oversubscription rules.

Quote:
Trouble is, if you find an undersubscribed school, as I understand you still have to go through the IAP and may not succeed with the appeal anyway.
If your child is now considered to be qualified, and if another Bucks grammar school has vacancies, I don't see why you would have to go through an IAP.
(You might have to formally change your preferences.)


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 05, 2013 12:13 pm 
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Joined: Wed May 01, 2013 6:57 pm
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Sorry one more question, Etienne.

You said we might not need to appeal again to a second grammar school. I thought that was the process - one appeal per school.

Etienne wrote:
Well done on getting this far.

I don't see any shortcuts, though.

Quote:
1) Does this mean that she gets a particular position on the waiting list, since she should have been in the first round of allocations (FCO not proven and academic case agreed)?
No, I don't believe this is possible. The waiting list (which could change from day to day) is determined solely by the application of the oversubscription rules.

Quote:
2) Since she should have been in the first round, can we put pressure on the Education Authority (County Council) in any way?
Chances are that they (and the admission authority) would argue there is a process to go through, and that any arguments about why you should have a place should be put to an independent appeal panel.

Quote:
3) Since our case was adjourned from 1st May to 31st May, and the third round was earlier in May AND we hear from another thread that a successful child was offered a place earlier this month, how does this strengthen our case?
It depends whether you would have got a place according to the admission rules (if known to be qualified) at an earlier point in time.

Quote:
4) If a place can't be found after all this, does this open up a compensation case
I'm doubtful. If you would have been entitled to a place at an earlier point in time, then that is an issue for an appeal panel to address.

Quote:
5) If no place can be found, would this constitute the highest criteria for Y8 entry, above the usual waiting list criteria like academic competence?
I'm afraid not. There are no criteria other than qualified status and the oversubscription rules.

Quote:
Trouble is, if you find an undersubscribed school, as I understand you still have to go through the IAP and may not succeed with the appeal anyway.
If your child is now considered to be qualified, and if another Bucks grammar school has vacancies, I don't see why you would have to go through an IAP.
(You might have to formally change your preferences.)


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 05, 2013 12:57 pm 
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Joined: Tue Mar 12, 2013 10:42 pm
Posts: 5
Toby, if you are in Bucks, then my understanding is that if you are successful through IAP, your child is deemed qualified only for the particular GS you appealed. You cannot transfer that qualification to another GS.
If you are directed towards an over-subscription appeal, the Admission Authority will send you a breakdown of how school places were allocated for that particular school.
You will then be able to see if your child would have received a place in any earlier admission rounds if the Selection Review had been fair. If your DC would have been allocated a place, you could well have a case for maladministration.
Good luck!
A huge thank you to all on the forum, and especially Sally-Anne and Etienne, for all the invaluable advice. I will post details of our horribly stressful (but ultimately successful) six months when I have recovered from it sufficiently to do so! I hope we can help other people as much as we have been helped by all of you.


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 05, 2013 4:13 pm 
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Joined: Mon Dec 12, 2005 5:26 pm
Posts: 7059
Quote:
If your child is now considered to be qualified, and if another Bucks grammar school has vacancies, I don't see why you would have to go through an IAP.
Sorry, my mistake. (Memo to self - stop trying to answer a lot of questions late at night! :oops:)

I've checked my earlier answers, and think the brain may still have been fully engaged as far as point 5!

Quote:
Thanks, Etienne. Is there one place place where I can find arguments against the school about oversubscription?
Some discussion here:
http://www.elevenplusexams.co.uk/appeal ... -school#c1

On the whole, though, you counter the school's case by putting forward reasons for wanting a place:
http://www.elevenplusexams.co.uk/appeal ... -school#c2

Quote:
I hear all your points, but I wonder whether they have been really tested, given so much of this is new and the SRP was found not to be FCO but after allocation?
Only time will tell.
I'm not aware of any 'concessions' in other parts of the country where the FCO test has been applied.


Good to hear of your success, RedKite. Congratulations!

_________________
Etienne


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