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PostPosted: Mon Feb 10, 2014 3:19 pm 
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crecheout wrote:
Hello all, I am also extremely confused by the whole review system.
DS had a shock low score , just over 100 when all indications out him passing with a reasonably comfortable margin. Strong head teacher support and. 2:2 score.
We got a tick in the three level 5s box.
Then a tick in the box the panel are not convinced on the basis of the KS2 progress to date that the expected outcomes can be achieved? How does that work then?
Other comments - nfer reports did not suggest a grammar school profile.
I agree that they are variable but if the school did not offer these how would they know, for example if we had been in a school that did not offer nfer testing.
We gave evidence of an underlying ENT infection, the doctors letter we submitted stated very clearly that he believed that the underlying condition would have seriously affected his performance. Is there medical expertise on the panel?
In the decision part at the end it said ENT infection insignificant, crossed out then insufficient evidence that would significantly have affected the score.
Then at very end, ticked both of the above, ie not significant evidence of illness and not demonstrated academic ability as reasons to refuse review.
Sorry this has been such a ramble.
Any ideas from anyone if I should try to take this further or if I should just accept it and get on with my life free from 11 plus dramas?


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 10, 2014 4:18 pm 
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Hi I can only speak from my experience last year with an appeal - but not for Bucks and no review process either. DS had a score 4 under the target score but had a pass score for 1 test and then a much lower score on the second test- both VR. I knew ds had very high CAT scores and was L5 for maths at end of Yr 5 and on target for 5a in Maths and Reading in SATS- later in the Yr 6 I found out he was doing level 6 tests. Armed with this evidence I felt I had to go to appeal for DS. Had his CAT scores been lower and had he not been doing the level 6 tests I am not sure I would have gone through the whole thing as it is hugely stressful and DS had been offered a relatively good alternative school.

I also had quite specific reasons for DS wanting a place at that particular grammar school and some extenuating circumstances

I also knew the school in question had had successful appeals in the past and so that was also a factor in my decision making process.
As I understand it the further you are from the pass mark the stronger the academic evidence needs to be to counter it. There are others with more knowledge and experience of the Bucks process but I think you might on an "uphill" struggle with an appeal. Sorry I cannot be more help.


Last edited by DC17C on Mon Feb 10, 2014 5:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 10, 2014 4:27 pm 
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Hi Crecheout

Just a comment on the medical evidence, I suppose it comes down to whether your child had an acute illness, in which case the advice here applies http://www.elevenplusexams.co.uk/appeal ... cation#b25

Evidence about more chronic conditions which may have led to prolonged time off school etc can be looked at differently bit there would have to be evidence of ability and also that perhaps the performance had deteriorated at the time the child became ill and not just on the day of the test.

Re the next stage... will have to wait for some expert comments.... :wink:


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 10, 2014 4:55 pm 
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Welcome, crecheout! :)

Quote:
We got a tick in the three level 5s box.
Then a tick in the box the panel are not convinced on the basis of the KS2 progress to date that the expected outcomes can be achieved? How does that work then?
Could you tell us what previous SATs levels were? For example, in year 2 and year 5?
Then we can make a judgement about 'progression'.

Quote:
Other comments - nfer reports did not suggest a grammar school profile.
I agree that they are variable but if the school did not offer these how would they know, for example if we had been in a school that did not offer nfer testing.
Unfortunately it's impossible to have a uniform system. Different cases (children at private schools, children from abroad, home schooled children) will come with different types of evidence. A panel has a duty to consider whatever evidence it's given.

Quote:
We gave evidence of an underlying ENT infection, the doctors letter we submitted stated very clearly that he believed that the underlying condition would have seriously affected his performance. Is there medical expertise on the panel?
No - but there doesn't need to be. The panel's role is to weigh up the evidence it's presented with.
It does concern me, though, that the doctor wrote "seriously affected", and the panel commented "insignificant"!
One of the problems with a review is that it's behind closed doors and there's no opportunity for a discussion.
An appeal panel would certainly ask why the test wasn't postponed if the child was not well - but the main focus ought to be on academic evidence.

You haven't said whether you've read the Q&As. If not, please go to "Start here":
viewtopic.php?f=35&t=35032

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 13, 2014 6:41 pm 
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Hi Etienne, thank you for your reply.
End of year 2 SATs - reading 3b, writing 2a - maths 3b.
Year 5 SATs- reading 4a - writing 4b- maths 4a.
Current performance at time of review.
Reading 5c- writing 4b- maths 5c.

Ds had a dreadful year 3 with a newly qualified teacher who just could not cope and his scores dipped , it took him the while of year 4 to get back up to scratch, as it did the whole of his class.

The doctors actual words- "I suspect the infection he had at this point had a significant bearing on his exam performance."
Basically ds had been unwell early in the week and we took him to see the doctor who prescribed over the counter medication. He seemed to get better and on the day of the exam he felt fine so I allowed him to take the exam. It was only when I picked him up from school that day that I could see he had deteriorated dramatically. He did not go to school the next day and I took him again to doctor who diagnosed an ENT infection and put him on a high dose of antibiotics. This information was written in a letter by the doctor and the school reiterated this in the review form.
The head teacher comments were very positive and said she fully supported the review and recommended ds for his suitability for Grammar school. She is not known for over enthusing and these comments were about as good as it gets.
The school was accurate in its scores it gave on the whole, all the 1:1s got through, all the 1:2s got through and about half the 2:2s were successful.

I have read all the Q and A information.

Any comments you have would be gratefully received.
I guess my main question is do you feel this is worth pushing or should I just let it go and pay fees for the next 5 years!
Many thanks.


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 13, 2014 8:25 pm 
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crecheout wrote:
End of year 2 SATs - reading 3b, writing 2a - maths 3b.
Year 5 SATs- reading 4a - writing 4b- maths 4a.
Current performance at time of review.
Reading 5c- writing 4b- maths 5c.
The progression looks all right to me, apart from writing.

Quote:
The doctors actual words- "I suspect the infection he had at this point had a significant bearing on his exam performance."
Basically ds had been unwell early in the week and we took him to see the doctor who prescribed over the counter medication. He seemed to get better and on the day of the exam he felt fine so I allowed him to take the exam. It was only when I picked him up from school that day that I could see he had deteriorated dramatically. He did not go to school the next day and I took him again to doctor who diagnosed an ENT infection and put him on a high dose of antibiotics. This information was written in a letter by the doctor and the school reiterated this in the review form.
Noted - I continue to be concerned that the GP's evidence was dismissed as insignificant.

Quote:
The school was accurate in its scores it gave on the whole, all the 1:1s got through, all the 1:2s got through and about half the 2:2s were successful.
That sounds good.

I don't know what the NFER scores were - but the comment by the SRP rather begs the question "What NFER scores would they have considered indicative of a grammar school profile (and how would those scores be justified)?"
That could be a question for an appeal!

Quote:
I guess my main question is do you feel this is worth pushing or should I just let it go and pay fees for the next 5 years!
There's no easy answer. There is the FCO test ('fair, consistent & objective') which might halt any further consideration of your case - but we know of a lot of review cases last year that were found not to have been 'fair, consistent & objective' on appeal.

Assuming an appeal panel were to find the review non-FCO, they might be prepared to accept that the extenuating circumstances were significant.

You have some good points to make regarding academic evidence, with two issues to be addressed:
(a) Is writing likely to be at level 5 by May?
(b) Depending on what the NFER scores were, might you need some alternative evidence of reasoning ability such as an ed. psych report? (We don't, of course, know what results such a report would come up with, and whether they would be sufficient to convince a panel.)

It might be worth putting in an appeal in March to keep your options open?
(You could just write "details of case to follow".)

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 14, 2014 10:59 am 
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Thank you so much for your helpful advice.
I will try to convince them that we at least deserve an appeal consideration once the march date has been reached.


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